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luchura

Noritsu 31 PRO Chemicals CD starter

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Hi all, I need a little help here trying to replace the Developer. Our tech guy made the initial installation and chemicals, but we don't trust that guy any more because it took him like 5 to 6 months to make the machine work very bad story.

Anyways, I know he used the following quantities for developer RA-4 CDR 2X10L

and 1 CD STARTER 1X1L

31 Pro tank size seems like 15 Gal, with rack in it it is like 12 1/2 Gal.

1 RA-4 CDR makes a 10L mixed with water.

I don't know if I just have to add the CD Starter with any water or just add like that?.

Thanks for any little help you may have.

-Luis

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12.5 gallons seems like A LOT for the CD tank - our 2901 CD is 19.6 liters or 5.8 gallons (with the bottom rack installed)

http://www.minilabhelp.com/forums/topic/19607-thrown-into-the-mix-urgent-help-needed/#comment-29981

http://www.minilabhelp.com/forums/topic/18654-help-qss-2611/#comment-24870

I just did a search and a copy / paste of a reply I made to someone else a few years back:

  • Do you have CD starter chemistry ???  You need it -- but only a little bit.
  • Do you have any liquid measuring beakers/ jugs ?  100ml, 1000ml, 5000ml are useful.  Also having a 10 or 20 Liter jug helps to mix working tanks.
  • Is your machine RA or SM ?  If SM, you won't be needing a replenishment tank mix except to mix your working tanks.
  • With all racks in all tanks in the 2611, Remove the filter (the 2" round thing with the label on it that says "CD", "BF" or "STB") and fill completely with water, and drain and measure the output amount of water from each tank and write these numbers down for each tank.
  • On the bottles of chemistry or in the box, there are mixing instructions for replenishment tank and for  working tank
  • Working tanks are the tanks on top that the paper goes through.   Replenishment tanks are the tanks on the bottom that slowly feed the working tanks.
  • There are 6 working tanks.  First is the CD, then Bleach Fix, then 4 stabilizer
  • You need to mix enough for the working tanks.  
  • Usually this means first mix the replenisment tank amount (mix)
  • Then to make the working tank mix, add a certain amount of water to a certain amount of replenisment mix, then pour this into the working tank.
  • For the CD tank, you'll also need to add a certain amount of CD Starter Chemical  (all documented on the bottle, or on the instruction sheet in the box) - I think the BF also needs starter
  • Since this is your first time, it will seem a bit difficult, but after you do it a couple of times, it's "nothing special".
  • The first time I did this, I was stressing a lot, but after doing it a couple of times, it's just another "chore" --- I used Excel to do the math and refer to it whenever we need to replace any working tanks.

So do some math:

Let's assume 20 liters of working tank solution is required.    You said: "1 RA-4 CDR makes a 10L mixed with water"

so mixing BOTH bottles would give you 20 liters of REPLENISHER, but to make a working tank mix, you need XX ml of replenisher, YY ml of water and ZZ ml of CD Starter to get to a final total of 20,000 ml = 20 liters.

The Champion CD Replenisher we use mixes like this: 1 bottle of concentrate (3420ml) + 6580ml of water = 10,000 ml = 10 liters of REPLENISHER

In this example, we need 20 liters to make enough to fill our working tank, so we look on our sheet (included with our chemistry) to calculate how to make a working tank mix, so our example sheet says:

           700ml of Replenisher + 25ml of Starter + 275ml of Water = 1 liter of working tank solution (mix)

so to take that 1 liter of working tank solution and make 20 liters of working tank solution, take the above #'s (700, 25 and 275) and multiply by 20

so now we have:

           14000ml of Replenisher + 500 ml of Starter + 5500 ml of Water = 20,000 ml = 20 liters of working tank solution

SO NOW, you can mix the exact amount of Replenisher that you need, or mix all the replenisher (20 liters) and only use 14000ml of it to make your working tank solution (then take the remaining 6000ml of replenisher and put it in your replenishment tank).

YOUR numbers will probably be different, this is just an example.

 

Hope this helps.  

 

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Thank you Big Dave, I measured the tank for the Noritsu 31 Pro Turbo with water, and the developer size is 11 gallons or 41.63

I am using Champion developer 40162, CD STARTER 40411. I guess the magic words to search on google was the Champion technical data sheet.

I found this site: http://www.championimaging.co.uk/ClientArea/files/Product Listings PDFS/COLOUR/RA4 Chemicals/RA4 Standard (Low to Medium Throughput)/140162 Primaprint SP VR Developer 6x10L/140162 SP VR Developer Tech Data Sheet.pdf

with instructions exactly as what you said. 

It seems there are two formulas to choose based on the replenishment rate, one is at temperature 38 deg C, and the other one 35 deg C.

Which one I choose? how do I know what is best?, it seems I have to program the rate on the machine too right?

Thank you so much.

-Luis

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Luis, Is that 41.63 liters for the CD, WITH the bottom rack in the machine ?  wow, that's a lot of chems.  I'm in the US, but still measure the chems in liters or mili-liters.

Our Noritsu CD is set at 38.0 celsius.

Turn on your Noritsu and find out what temperature the CD is set at.     Just fill up the CD tank with water - turn on the Noritsu - and find out what temperature the CD is set at.   Then you will know what to do.    I would DOUBLE CHECK the replenishment rate in case your technician didn't set that correctly.

For your CD chems, it looks like,

     Higher temps (38 C) = less chemistry needed / square meter of paper going through the machine and

     Lower temp (35 C) = more chemistry needed / square meter of paper going through the machine.

 

If you are POSITIVE it is 41.63 liters, here's the math for either high or low temp solutions:

FYI: THE REPLENISHER BELOW IS (CONCENTRATE + WATER) = REPLENISHER ! --- NOT CONCENTRATE -- GOT IT ?

     Higher temps (38 C)            =       500ml Replenisher   +    40ml Starter         +      460ml Water      = 1000ml of working tank solution   =  1 liter

                  multiplied by 41.63 =   20815ml of replenisher + 1665.2ml of starter + 19149.8ml of water = 41630ml of working tank solution = 41.630 Liters

     Lower temp (35 C)              =        500ml Replenisher  +       25ml Starter        +    475ml Water          = 1000ml of working tank solution   =  1 liter

                  multiplied by 41.63 =   20815ml of replenisher + 1040.75ml of starter + 19774.25ml of water = 41630ml of working tank solution = 41.630 Liters

 

Microsoft Excel (or any other spreadsheet program) is GREAT for this -- just change the multiplier and you have your new numbers instantly.

GOOD LUCK !

 

 

Edited by Big Dave
clarify that : replenisher = concentrate + water !

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Thank you again Big Dave, 

Yes the tank size is 41.63 litters with the 2 racks in the machine.

I have checked the temperature settings and it is set to 38 deg C.

I am using Excel for the calculations and it is a very good tool. Thanks for the recommendation.

We are going to change the Bleach P2, and the rinse P3 also.

For P3 the tech just had water in there, do you know if that is Okay, or we got to get a chemical for the Rinse?.

Thank you,

-Luis

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