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Fujifilm Frontier DE 100

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2 hours ago, nick2898 said:

DE 100 printer is faster than DX100.

It is not true. DE100 is a little slower than DX100. DE100 - 330 prints/h and DX100 - 360 prints/h. DE100 is bigger and more heavy - 490x430x354 cm 26,5 kg ( DX100 460x430x350 cm and 20 kg ) .

On other hand DE100 has many advantages. DE100 standard print resolution is 1200 х 1200 and high resolution 2400 х 1200 ( DX100 - 720 х 720 and 720 х 1440 ) , DE100 ink drop is 1 Picoliter ( DX100 - 2 pL ) , DE100 minimal print size 50х89 ( DX100 - 102х89 ) , DE100 4 ink cartridges ( DX-100 6 cartridges ) . DE100 is made by Fuji using Ricoh and Xerox technology and parts. Print head, head interface, main board and few other elements are made by Ricoh. Some software elements - like on Xerox ( for example code to access service mode ) . DX-100 is made by Epson China ( green painted model SL-D700 with Fuji firmware, system software, driver and cartridges ) . There used cheap and simple pumps and printer head, so not strange that these elements fails the most. 

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Hello guys, just my two cents about the DE100, and overall printing solutions.  I had a very long conversation with a Fujifilm/Noritsu technician, so my facts are based on that and also personal use and technical knowledge.

 

Ink: 

Fujifilm owns almost all ink production companies, for exemple, HP buys all their processed pigment from them, others companies do the same, this is important because, it puts Fujifilm in business advantage over a lot of companies. 

 

Epson:

The partnership with EPSON was kind of "stupid". No company likes to develop new products in house, is far more inexpensive to subcontract a far better company and allocate that development, and pay Epson to produce and assemble the printer. The agreement with epson was, "We (Fujifilm) sell all ink related products and paper and you (Epson) will produce dx100, exclusive, for us in the next 5/7 years, and after that, you can produce your own (D700). Well epson kid of shit on the deal and sold almost all technology to Chinese manufactures and start production on the Epson D700 year after. So after that deal was off with epson, and the market was open to everyone. (Aftermarket)

 

Dx100: 

The print head was first used on the Noritsu D701 as a test run, since Noritsu was barely open they accepted anything (by the way, Noritsu now sells frying pans, yes frying pans!!), and the machine was very nice, 30k price, far less maintenance, affordable media and low electric build, and above all, fast printing. So after the test run, it was used in the DX100. Customers were spending so much money on their minilabs, this printer was revolutionary, almost the same printing price as in the chemical minilab but far more inexpensive in every aspect. It was like switching from analog to digital back in 2005/2006. Nevertheless, the print head is just dreadful, so tiny and small for a mediocre 100k lifespan, and the fact they choose 6 inks instead of 4 was not uplifting to the hole system. Problems didn't stop there, things like, motherboard malfunction, power supply issues etc.. where happening in a daily basis in machines with 10k, 20k prints. The cherry on top was the cooling fan, it had a life spawn of a tiny fish, it's just unacceptable. 

 

De100:

A complete different unit. Develop in base from the older chassis, but nothing else. A new print head and rail design, by, non other than, CANON. Like it or not, canon does an amazing job in the printing department. The change to 4 inks was logical, the new head is able to produce the same output in image quality has the DX100 with just 4 inks. Taking in consideration that Fuji owns the proprietary ink develop, cartiges etc, is going to take a couple of years until we have certified aftermarket inks. Mitsubishi, already develops a paper for the fuji DX100 that also works on the DE100. Prices may vary from country to country, mainly because of VAT taxes. Has of January 2021, there is now other machine in the market to compete with the DE100, at least in Europe. 

 

Sublimation:

I had a DNP RX1, good printer, prices are fair, but the system is not perfect, the paper texture is not remotely close to a chemical minilab or even a good quality dry printer paper. It kind of looks like a print you make in a supermarket. There are a lot of printers available, but in the end, they come all from the same manufacturer, and the technology is in the top of the game for the last 5 years. If you have a sub 1000€ budget this is a good investment. 

 

Chemical Minilab:

Its my favorite, I just love those gigantic machines, they are the pinocle of analogue technology! The out put its just perfect!!!!!!!!!! But, don't buy one if you print less than 100.000 prints a year, it super expensive to maintain, there are less and less parts for it each day. Its dying tech. 

 

In the end: If you have a photo studio and need a solution for printing, you must do some calculations, all the printers above are for at least 20.000 prints a year, the sublimation a little less, and the minilab for more than 100.000.  If you do fine art printing this is definitely not for you, go away!

 

If in 2021 you still print and sell prints I salut you my friend!! Thank you for keeping this awesome tradition alive. Sorry for my crapy English, stay safe, use film cameras and print away! 

January 2021, LIP.

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You should make fact check, mate ... prior posting them. That "Noritsu/Fuji technician" doesn't` know what he is talking about at all.Just bragging to look like more competent in front of you.

8 hours ago, Lip Craver said:

Fujifilm owns almost all ink production companies,

Fujifilm Corporation owns only Fujifilm Imaging Colorants company - they are contract manufacturer of inks and colorants. Not even in top 10 ink manufacturers.

 

8 hours ago, Lip Craver said:

Well epson kid of shit on the deal and sold almost all technology to Chinese manufactures and start production on the Epson D700 year after. So after that deal was off with epson, and the market was open to everyone.

That centennially make me lough. Epson to sale technology to Chinese's and more over Epson to allow market to be opened for everyone?!!!? Epson!!!

 

8 hours ago, Lip Craver said:

The print head was first used on the Noritsu D701 as a tes

DX100/D700 printhead on D701? As test run?!! Whoever told you that should become Fantasy novels writer for sure.

 

8 hours ago, Lip Craver said:

A new print head and rail design, by, non other than, CANON

For the last time in that forum ... it is Ricoh. Canon doesn't know of exiting of DE100. I have De100 printed just in front of me on my desk ...It say with big bold white letters RICOH on it. Not to mention that Canon make only thermal based inkjet heads and DE100 is piezo one - it is written in specification brochure. Anyone who barely knows about inkjet will know that.

 

9 hours ago, Lip Craver said:

Taking in consideration that Fuji owns the proprietary ink develop, cartiges etc, is going to take a couple of years until we have certified aftermarket inks

There will be never "Certified" aftermarket inks for DE100 or any other dry lab printer at that matter. Certified by whom? It just doesn't work that way at all. If you talk of alternative inks from third party companies - there is such inks and cartridge existing right now in that very moment.De100 fully compatible.

 

9 hours ago, Lip Craver said:

Mitsubishi, already develops a paper for the fuji DX100 that also works on the DE100

Develop paper for DE100 in particular?!? Any kind of roll coated inkjet paper that is suitable for DE100 is suitable for all other inkjet dry labs. Same way you can use Fuji, Kodak, Tura, Agfa etc on any wet lab you can use any brand inkjet paper on any dry lab.

Anyway...  stay safe and healthy and don't believe anything you hear.

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In my opinion, there is now no other choice on the market today than the DE100.

We have been printing photos since the EP2 technology (before RA4).

We took Gretag, some analog Noritsu, FUJILM SFA series ... Then digital Gretag/SMI and FUJIFILM FRONTIER 300, 500 series.

Today our printing market is 90% smaller than it used to be.


We still have a FRONTIER 500 and it can be used to provide services for a low cost customer today. But this wet (RA4) technology is already dead. The technology has not been developed for at least 15 years! From the technical point of view, using lightsensitive paper does not make sense if we do not need project the image from the film onto it directly. Everything only exists because of the relatively low prices of silver paper (THX, LUCKY China) and chemicals (THX, AXEL Italy) and the heretage of FUJIFILM itself of course. Unfortunately, the our old machines are at the end of their existence.

The tremotransfer technology is perfect when you need to take photos for ID, or a few quick amateur prints from a phone. (BTW, how long will printed ID photos in the digital twenty-first century still exist?) Unfortunately, the quality and size of the format is insufficient when it comes to professional photography! Besides, the termotransfer print is today a synonym of contemporary printed photography, available in every drugstore, eg ROSSMANN. If we want to be competitive in the market, we must be different, be simply better!

Technologies such as laser printing with toner, due to the print quality, are currently only successful in niche tasks such as printing calendars and cheap photo albums. Very good price and speed, but below average quality.

Today and for the next tomorrow we only have the Inkjet technology!

For enlargements over A4 the EPSON SURECOLOR SC-P and CANON plotters of the imagePROGRAF PRO series are standard. It used to be only EPSON, but after the recent problems with the durability of new models, now CANON is often a favorite!

For small formats, it was the absurdly expensive NORITSU QSS GREEN or the hopelessly chimeric/defectiv DX100/D700. All based on the greed and insolence of the only right EPSON! I don't know what the new D800 is, but I'm fed up with EPSON's ubiquitous arrogance!

I have trusted RICOH technology since we switched from EPSON printers to RICOH/SAWGRASS gel printers in sublimation product decoration. It was like day and night! No more clogged heads, no more throwing expensive printers into the garbage after only half a year usage! If the FUJIFILM DE100 is at least 50% as durable as other RICOH products, its simply no brainer.

 For now, we have had one DE100 for a few months now and everything is fine. Maybe the colors aren't better than the DX100's, but it does the job whenever you need it. And the inks should be cheaper, my dear FUJIFILM!

I greet and bow to all those who can earn a living by printing photos these days!

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DE100 is free from annoying automatic errors that stuck the printer? I had reset 2 months ago the "ink tube error" on the DX100 with the Service Software,  and  i'm still printing without problems (45.000 more prints since the reset). That mean Fujifilm/Epson are thieves! they grabbed money from us all these years, when we got that error we sent the printers to the Service for replace, while the part wasn't really broken!!! I have 10 DX100 in my studio...

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well that Fujifilm story is good lulaby, the nearest Fujifilm office from my shop is 200 km away, and that's tiny office, no warehouse etc, if you need something from them, than yo can't depend on them, and they will rip you off. I have shop from my father who was worked at Fujifim as tech since Fujifilm use Noritsu System 1, and he said and quoted "i'll never buy Fujifilm machines again"

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13 hours ago, Rourke84 said:

DE100 is free from annoying automatic errors that stuck the printer? 

No. Its not.... but it is different. First of all the numbers are double - 100k on DX100 vs. 200K on DE100 and second one - the reset tool is included in the standard Dvd disk with drivers that you are receiving with the printer. That's why it is called - Maintenance tool instead of Service tool .

To reset life span of parts you just need to open Maintenance tool program - on the open screen you will be asked for user and password. They are two choices - User and Administrator neither of them works to reset parts life. But then comes the magic ... if you simultaneously press “Ctrl” + “Alt” + “s” keys (“Option” + “Command” + “s” for mac) the Service menu appears from out of nowhere - choose it -> enter the "6789" pass,  press enter and do what's need to be done. And of course you owe me a drink.

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[ Minilab Service ] said before that . . .  These printers are almost the same. Difference only software, driver, maintenance utility, cover color and cartridges with ink. Don't forget EPSON builds for Fujifilm, not vice versa 

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They said DE100 PH can achieve 200k before needs replacement, but i doubt that, same as when they said D700 can achieve 100k or d800 can double than that i never believe it.....But here in my country, D700 PH is very cheap , around $200 after tax, that's from ESC Epson Service Centre, put another $25 if you want them to install it....but here Fujifilm is just small business, they don't have factory, they don't have office in every province, so they needs to made money from everything ehat they charge from their customers. My friend have DE100, and PH cost is almost half of the  printer itself....at the end of day, we need to made money, so for me using "unreliable" epson printer is better choice than Ricoh's product thanks to Epson great support.

did i forget to mention, that Epson gives you free Order Controller software , and here Fujifilm charged u more money if you want Fujifilm Order Software ( i forget what it's name, last time we use Fujifilm, it called FE Software)

 

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On SL-D700 and all SL-D800 used the same print head. Upgraded print head ( with new part number ) lasts longer, but not so long. On SL-D800 used many parts from SL-D700. Of course - the latest revision.

On DE100 used print head made by Ricoh. Similar print head used on industrial printers. That is the reason, why it can to print longer. Ricoh print head can clean only one color ( where is gap ) . During cleaning saved ink and not used other print head channels.

Yes, Fuji doesn't supply free printing software ( MS01 ) . In set not included even electrical cable and USB cable. With printer supplied system software ( driver ) . It is enough to print on DE100. Can use standard Windows software. Of course it is not comfortable. To print faster can use MS01 + MSP80 + optional MS software modules, or use third parties photo print software ( there are many of them ) .

FE is not software to use with DE100, or DX100. It is older package to use with minilabs . FE is S1, S2, S3 and many other modules.

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9 hours ago, purnomosetiawan said:

They said DE100 PH can achieve 200k before needs replacement, but i doubt that, same as when they said D700 can achieve 100k or d800 can double than that i never believe it.....But here in my country, D700 PH is very cheap , around $200 after tax, that's from ESC Epson Service Centre, put another $25 if you want them to install it....but here Fujifilm is just small business, they don't have factory, they don't have office in every province, so they needs to made money from everything ehat they charge from their customers. My friend have DE100, and PH cost is almost half of the  printer itself....at the end of day, we need to made money, so for me using "unreliable" epson printer is better choice than Ricoh's product thanks to Epson great support.

did i forget to mention, that Epson gives you free Order Controller software , and here Fujifilm charged u more money if you want Fujifilm Order Software ( i forget what it's name, last time we use Fujifilm, it called FE Software)

 

The situation with the service may be different in each country. In Poland, for example, from 2020 only one service company has access to genuine Epson parts. All independent service engineers endeavor to repair the EPSON D700 with parts available for the FUJIFILM DX100. In Indonesia, it's probably the opposite.

Either way, the old D700 / DX100 will probably end up in the trash in no time if the FUJIFILM DE100 is indeed as good as it seems.

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DE100 uses 4 inks, but here ink price per catridge is double than D700/d800 inks, again why it's expensive because again here Fujifilm is tiny company compare to epson, they needs more money from less user,compare to epson that has more user and more avaibility, OEM consumable parts and media also available at third party store, but usually they're more expensive than ESC (because they ordered it there too). Which one is better ? it doesn't matter as long your consumer accepted it, at the end of day we needs to make money from theese printer. 

so the questions is,  which one is cheeper to run ?

In my experience,  Maybe Epson D700/d800 is more unriable compared to "industrial" DE100, but our investment for theese printer is cheap, it pays by end of first month of use (before covid 19 of course), so we have another 23 months to slave this printer under epson warranty (yes epson offers 2yrs warranty with extended guarentee) just like for the large prints,  we use canon instead of epson, why ? because canon offers lifetime warranty as long using OEM inks, yes life time warranty for Pro Printer include Print Head. i don't care which brand is better quality, as long as our customer accept it and resonable to run, we use it..that's why our Frontier 340 is a huge paper weight at the warehouse because lack of their support and software update, so our cutomers didn't like the result from newest paper compare to Noritsu machines.

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18 hours ago, Rourke84 said:

what about the quality? must be less than DX100, 4 inks vs 6 inks, less shades on the halftones.

So called "dull" colors (LC/LM) where invented long ago in order to achieve better gradation in skin tones and skies. It was a problem back  then since the technology wasn't so advance. Single drop systems with 10 times bigger drop compared to current ones, no variable multi drop systems, no advance raster image processing etc. In short there is no any kind of issue as far as it goes of quality of DE100 vs DX100. In fact DE100 perform a bit better and more stable over cheaper papers.

 

Edited by hivanov

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