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QSF-T15 Resetting Problem

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Hi guys,

 

I'm a repair tech in a smallish town and I'm trying to fix an old Noritsu QSF-T15.  This isn't the sort of equipment I usually work on but there isn't really anyone specifically qualified so I'm giving it a go .  Hoping someone on here remembers these things and may have encountered this problem before.  

The unit starts up fine and goes through all the usual start up checks and options, once everything is heated up the display says to turn on the driver motor switch, as soon as you do the unit shuts down (all the red lights on Power PCB 2 go out).  If you leave the switch on it'll turn back on and then shut down again and continue looping like this.  Once you shut the switch off it'll reboot and stay on and go back through normal startup.  Here's another strange thing if you leave the switch on it'll get to that point and then just pause there operating normally until you flick the switch off and then back on, and then it fails.

I've tried isolating different components looking for shorts as that was my first impression when I first encountered it, disconnected the drive motor, then the drive motor control board specifically with no change.

Any ideas what to check or do next?  

Thanks,

John

Edited by Fotoart Tech

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1.
All depends how long that FP was stored.
If it was too long not in use the battery on the mainboard is almost dead and it may be a cause of this issue.
It may force the la to reboot and reboot...
Replace it with the new one.
Just solder new battery above old one - such way you will not lose all settings.
Frankly speaking I never serviced T15.
We had QSF4*** series and QSF series so T15 is a not familiar to me.
2.  Next I would check the PSU.
3. Then SSR
4. Then all heaters for short circuit.
5. Then I would check the keyboard connector.
Sometimes poorly connected keyboard cable could shoot our brains for a week..
 

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It does not use a backup battery, it is a backup capacitor. It is normal for it to go flat after a few months switched off, but as soon as you switch the machine back on it will charge up instantly. No need to replace it.

Anyway the backup battery will not cause the machine breaker to trip!

Edited by Dave S

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@DaveS
Thanks for information about the capacitor.
As I mentioned before I never seen T15 so do not know what does it use to save the settings in memory.
But if to speak about the film processor we had one case with QFS-V30 long time ago when a dead mainboard caused rebooting all the time due to a flat battery.
After replacement of the battery all was fine.
 

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Hi guys,

Thanks for giving some good ideas on where to look next.  I've tried some of that, but definitely those dryer parts would make good sense.  I didn't check any heaters as I figured seeing that I had to wait for the chemicals to be heated before getting to driver motor stage that they'd be working fine, didn't know the dryer one came of after, good tip.

I'll try get back in there soon and cross some of these off the list.

Thanks again.

Edited by Fotoart Tech

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Hi again guys,

 

So I still haven't had much luck isolating what is a likely short.  The only real change I've noticed is that if I disconnect the jumper for the blower heater the device just flickers please wait once maybe twice quickly on the screen and doesn't start up, seems odd that disconnecting it would worsen the problem.

Getting steady 23.5V out on three of the red lines leaving the DC Power Supply Board, not sure if they're all supposed to be live.  The white power resistors in the center of the Main Power Board are pretty damn hot, not necessarily unusual for power resistors but the other bank along the bottom of the board is just warm so I figured I'd ask.

Something else, I didn't know this before but when you first start it it flickers the please wait for 5 - 10min before actually warming up and staying on.  Figured there might be a power supply issue but they seem to be ok.

Know of anything else that activates with the drive motor switch?  I've pretty much disconected every jumper one at a time to isolate things with no luck.

Thanks again.

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A few more details,

I get a steady 120V to the DC Supply as well even when the switch is flipped.  The control board is getting a steady 5V as well.

The only thing that stops it from rebooting when the switch is flipped is if I disable the 5V to the control board, if I do that the blower fan comes on automatically when the machine is powered.  

Also the driver does activate and work fine when the switch is flipped but the pumps for the chemicals all shut off.  It will still run the film leader through it just fine.

Thanks again for any hints.

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Pins 5, 6, 7 & 8 on the power supply output are +24V the rest are ground.

I take it the switch that is tripping off is grey/white one near to where the power cable connects?

I don’t know how you are still getting voltage on the power supply after this switch has tripped off as this is the main breaker switch, all power should be off when this switch is off.

It looks like the jumper J25 for the dryer heater voltage selection has a link on it between pins 9 & 10 I suspect this cuts the power if the link is not plugged in. You can disconnect the dryer heater on J/P124 instead, it will probably be located at the back of the machine where the dryer is. Or if you remove Fuses F6, F7 & F8, this will disconnect the power going to the dryer heater as well.

With the 5V disconnected most things will not be running as the control board uses low voltage to turn the relays (SSR’s) on, that power the pumps and heaters, including dryer heater.

My guess is it is the dryer heater causing it to trip from your description.

Edited by Dave S

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Hi again guys,

I took another look at things and if I'm looking at the same breaker you were mentioning Dave then I don't think it's tripping, as you mentioned this is the main and the control board remains powered during the failure.

I took some videos to demonstrate the problem, don't worry they're short no more then 5 min. or so total.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's one of the initial startup issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w5VRADfV5k

This one shows the screen occasionally going screwy during the above start up issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epBTrW24Qn4

And then finally after it gets running this one demonstrates the Drive Motor Switch Problem:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6hHoOzllbU

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks in advance for taking a look and I hope it is helpful.

Edited by Fotoart Tech

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Ok I understand more what's happening now with your videos. It's a strange problem for sure.

Enter the service mode, and go into check, output check, test all the items operate with the drive switch turned on/off. You should see various LED's light up as each item is operated.

I would remove the power PCB 2 to check the back of the board has not had chemistry spilt on it.

Try doing an all data initialization, then set the date and time, that may help with the initial start up issue.

Edited by Dave S

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Funny you should mention PCB2 and spillage, just before I left on friday I tried popping the two connectors up there on the top right, (driver motor and something else) out and they were pretty stuck in, corroded and black looking.  Going to try pull the pins out and clean them all up and I'll double check the back of the board as well.  They were bad enough I couldn't even get them back in right.  

Hopefully that'll be it.  I'll let you know.

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Ok, so pulled PCB 2 and checked behind the board, clean and nice, looks in great shape.  Pulled all the pins on those connectors and cleaned them up, didn't solve the original problem but at least I've got it starting again, couldn't even get the one back in before.

Guess we're onto service mode, hopefully I'll find something there.

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Something must have been spilt on those connectors if they are black and corroded. It's possible that has blown something on the board.

You need to check that all the pins and wires are still making good contact by measuring the resistance, just because the pin is clean does not mean the wire inside the pin is making good contact!

It may also have corrosion underneath the socket on the circuit board which you can't see unless you de-solder the socket from the PCB.

You can also use input check to test all the sensors, make sure the top cover sensor is working as that will shut off the pumps if it thinks it open.

Edited by Dave S

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