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QSS 2301 Auto Neg Carrier problem

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I recently had to reinstall the OS (system program version D004) on my Noritsu QSS-2301. After reinstalling, the machine doesn't recognize my auto negative masks (ANM). Both the red and greeen lights on the 35mm A carrier are lit. The machine recognizes that there is a carrier ( it reacts when I pull the carrier on and off) but doesn't recognize that I have attached the carrier it's requesting. I noticed in my manual that some machines used an ANM PCB - but my machine does not have that PCB. Does anyone have any experience with this? 

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It's possible that it couldn't read the ANM.sys from the system 1B floppy disk.

Try preparing another floppy disk with just ANM.sys on in, then go to the software upgrade screen and try it again.

I have version D018 if you want it?

I'm pretty sure there is a flash ROM in the ANM itself.

Edited by Dave S

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Thanks for the quick response Dave! I tried your fix to no avail- I copied ANM.sys to a new disk, attempted to read from disk->cpu and the machine says "appropriate file not find".

I'd love a copy of D018 - can you email or dropbox that to david@bluemooncamera.com - or can you share it here? 

Do you know the difference between D004 and D018?

Thanks again,

David 

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Machines without a CRT or DCP had A0## software rather that D0## software. A0## machines had no image transfer PCB.

I highly doubt any CRT would still be working by now. They only just worked when they were new!! Tube failures and HVPS failures very common. The later manufacture of CRT tubes were much better.

I seem to remember there being a big speed increase with D008 onwards, basically it cut and fed 3 or 4 pieces of paper and put them on the exposure belt before the first print was made, this increased the speed over feeding down a single print each time.

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8 hours ago, Dave S said:

Machines without a CRT or DCP had A0## software rather that D0## software. A0## machines had no image transfer PCB.

I highly doubt any CRT would still be working by now. They only just worked when they were new!! Tube failures and HVPS failures very common. The later manufacture of CRT tubes were much better.

I seem to remember there being a big speed increase with D008 onwards, basically it cut and fed 3 or 4 pieces of paper and put them on the exposure belt before the first print was made, this increased the speed over feeding down a single print each time.

We don't have a CRT on this machine and we don't have an image transfer PCB in this machine.

(if I'm understanding correctly CRT in this cases refers to a digital print accessory - not the monitor)

 

Before the issue with the ANM we were chasing issues with Error #509 and 510 -auto paper mask width operation error & auto paper mask advance length operation error. 

Per the books recommendations:

We replaced the relevant PMDs - no change to the paper mask errors

We replaced the exposure deck PCB - no change to the paper mask errors 

We replaced the main control PCB - no change to the paper mask errors 

 

I imagine we introduced the ANM issues when we replaced the main control PCB and reinstalled D004. We are replacing these parts from a few different parts machines - one of which does have a CRT. 

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3 hours ago, Dave S said:

Download link for D018 here https://files.fm/u/xcqh25b5

I attempted to write this to the Noritsu CPU, but I again got the "appropriate file not find" message. I also went back and took a look at my D004 disks and noted that it is labeled as being for "QSS-2301/2302 with CRT" - does the "with CRT" come into play here? In other words, is it applicable for my machine without a CRT? 

 

Thanks again for all your help - I'm clearly in over my head here 

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If you don't have a CRT (digital printer) it's probably best to use A software rather than D software.

I have A031 which is for a non CRT/DCP machine if you want to use that instead. Link here https://files.fm/u/tbvj8unz

With regard to the auto paper mask problem, check the connector plug at the back where the mask plugs in to it, it may be damaged, or some pins have worked loose etc. You can check the home sensors in input check.

Also check that the mask plates move smoothly by hand when the mask is off the machine.

Edited by Dave S

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I've upgraded the system to A031 and I'm continuing to have issues recognizing any of the negative carriers. I thought it was software related, but i think that we can rule that out now?

The connection for the paper mask is in good shape. The auto paper mask is mechanically sound, it moves smoothly off of the machine. I've also tried another paper mask with the same result. 

I've got an exposure deck PCB, a main control PCB, and several PMDs out for repair currently. Fingers crossed something good comes back from those. 

Any more help is appreciated- I'm open to try just about anything. I need to get this machine back up and running.

 

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11 hours ago, Bluemooncamera said:

I resolved my ANM issues. It was a poor connection on the main control PCB - poor as in I failed to plug in one of the connections.

So now I am back to just one issue - the width and advance motor errors. 

Oops, yeah a missed connector will do it! Thanks for telling us, it's often the simple things we overlook.

What is happening with regard to the movement of the paper mask? Is it moving at all, is it juddering as it moves? does it move to one end then start juddering?

Have you checked the home sensors in input check?

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13 hours ago, Dave S said:

Oops, yeah a missed connector will do it! Thanks for telling us, it's often the simple things we overlook.

What is happening with regard to the movement of the paper mask? Is it moving at all, is it juddering as it moves? does it move to one end then start juddering?

Have you checked the home sensors in input check?

Now that the ANM issue is resolved I'm able to print again, just nothing with a decent looking border. 

The  The home sensors in input check out.

The paper mask moves but is juddering. It's crunchy sounding and juddering all the way across the easel. It often Doesn't return itself all the way to the home sensor.  This is all happening through the output menu. If I were to try and make a print i would get 509 & 510 errors.

It really seems like a PMD issue to me. I had this issue early last week with just the width, swapped PMDs and it resolved the issue for a day. Then the issues resumed, with both width and advance. Maybe all the PMDs I have are bad?

 

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16 hours ago, Bluemooncamera said:

Now that the ANM issue is resolved I'm able to print again, just nothing with a decent looking border. 

The  The home sensors in input check out.

The paper mask moves but is juddering. It's crunchy sounding and juddering all the way across the easel. It often Doesn't return itself all the way to the home sensor.  This is all happening through the output menu. If I were to try and make a print i would get 509 & 510 errors.

It really seems like a PMD issue to me. I had this issue early last week with just the width, swapped PMDs and it resolved the issue for a day. Then the issues resumed, with both width and advance. Maybe all the PMDs I have are bad?

 

Juddering while moving 90% of the time is due to one or more stepper motor coils not being powered by the PM driver.

Check the resistance of the motor coils to make sure none are shorted out, all the coils should have a similar resistance between them.

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On 1/25/2020 at 9:21 AM, Dave S said:

Juddering while moving 90% of the time is due to one or more stepper motor coils not being powered by the PM driver.

Check the resistance of the motor coils to make sure none are shorted out, all the coils should have a similar resistance between them.

Thanks Dave. I'll add that to my list of potential problems - but since I'm seeing the same issue across multiple easel masks, I'll hold off for now. I'm not eager to disassemble a motor unnecessarily.

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to my poor memory I think there are 2 identical PM driver ( 1 for ANM and 2nd one for ??? ).  I am thinking to find them and swop / swap / interchange them for testing....  to see how will be the ANM issue. . ..   Personally I believe PM driver is more likely to fail . . .  than a bad stepper motor . ..   JUST FOR REFERENCE

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17 hours ago, Bluemooncamera said:

Thanks Dave. I'll add that to my list of potential problems - but since I'm seeing the same issue across multiple easel masks, I'll hold off for now. I'm not eager to disassemble a motor unnecessarily.

You don't need to dissemble the motor, just measure the resistance on the connector plug. My concern is a faulty motor may damage any replacement PM driver.

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On 1/25/2020 at 12:22 AM, kodak_service said:

There are many such ANMs in the minilab (at least 5 pieces).
Try swapping dubious ANMs with those you are sure of. If the situation does not change, you need to check and lubricate the mechanism of the paper mask.

 

7 hours ago, davidlam said:

to my poor memory I think there are 2 identical PM driver ( 1 for ANM and 2nd one for ??? ).  I am thinking to find them and swop / swap / interchange them for testing....  to see how will be the ANM issue. . ..   Personally I believe PM driver is more likely to fail . . .  than a bad stepper motor . ..   JUST FOR REFERENCE

 

On 1/23/2020 at 3:25 PM, Bluemooncamera said:

I resolved my ANM issues. It was a poor connection on the main control PCB - poor as in I failed to plug in one of the connections.

So now I am back to just one issue - the width and advance motor errors. 

 

Thanks everybody for the input, the help is greatly appreciated! The ANM issue is resolved - it was a missed connection on the main control PCB. Now I'm trying to fix juddering width and advance motors on my paper mask. 

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