Noritsu 2901 - all chems in working tank are COLD

[Big Dave 15]

Hello All !

Todays problem is All of the working tanks are not heating up even after 2 hours of warm up time.  Working tank temperatures did not rise.

All fuses on J390456 are ok (F1-F11 and FL1-FL4) all SSRs look good,  None are dark or burnt or damaged.

PCB J390564 is the same.  Everything looks fine.

No error messages were displayed.  

What could it be ?

thank you !

[davidlam 23]

Are all the working tank pump circulating ?

[davidlam 23]

since no error and problems applied to all chemistry... I would suggest problem with J390532 processor control pcb  -or- the PS11  +24v/36v power supply

see below their locations

[davidlam 23]

also the J390458 Processor connecting connecting PCB  is a good place to look at those LEDs to tell power supply voltage readiness 

[Big Dave 15]

Thank you @davidlam,

if I remember correctly, both boards in the back looked good, but will check voltages tomorrow.

[Dave S 82]

Check if LED 9 (SOLU) is lit on the Power PCB 1 (J390456)
Check LED 9 (SOLU) & 10 (LEVEL) are lit on the Power PCB 2 (J390564)

[Big Dave 15]

Hi DaveS,

yes, all the LEDs you asked about are on.

couple days ago, machine was making all the “right” noises, today, after about 5-7 minutes, the (I think) dryer motor turned off, so it “sounded different” today.

About a minute after the change in sound from the Noritsu, I just turned it off at the breaker.

 

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Big Dave
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[Dave S 82]

Are LED's 1, 2 & 3 lit on the Power PCB 1 when it says the solution temperatures being adjusted?

If they are, it will mean either there is no mains voltage going to the heaters, check fuses, F1, F6 and F7, make sure the fuses are tight in the holders or the relay X1 or X2 has gone bad on the Power PCB 1.

Obviously only check the fuses/ holders with the power turned off!

If LED's 1, 2 & 3 are not lit, it will be a control issue, basically it means the processor control PCB is not sending the signal to turn the heaters on.

Check the connectors J/P649 Power PCB 1 & J/P 511 on the Processor Control PCB.

[Big Dave 15]

Hi DaveS,

I took photos of those PCBs and yes LEDs 1, 2, 3 & 4 are ON

all fuses on PCB1 are good , cleaned and reseated.

SSR x1 and x2 visually look fine from the top, but do not know if they are failing.

The connectors you referenced on PCB1 and Processor control PCB are good and have been reseated.

 

[Big Dave 15]

On 6/30/2020 at 4:17 AM, Dave S said:

or the relay X1 or X2 has gone bad on the Power PCB 1.

@Dave S  Is there a way to test those 2 relays without removing the pcb ??

[davidlam 23]

A silly question from me..

if your machine is a 3 phase machine.. will that be Any 1 of the 3 phases tripped without your awareness ?

[Dave S 82]

If you are confident measuring live voltages, you can measure between the screw terminals T1 & T2, there should be 220-240V AC

You can also check the mains voltage between Fuse F1 & F6, again should be 220-240V AC.

The relays X1 & X2 will be the black squarish relays, they are not SSR's.
There is no easy way to easily test them without removing the PCB and testing it on the bench. Would have to apply 24V DC to the relay coil and check the resistance of the contacts using a multimeter.

If you have a spare power PCB 1, I would just swap it out.
Take a photo of all the connectors and terminals before you swap it as a reference.

Make sure the machine is isolated from the wall socket before you swap the board.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Dave S

[davidlam 23]

i find a photo in eBay, here you go

 

[davidlam 23]

@big dave,,,, are all red jumpers there on your board ?

[Big Dave 15]

On 7/8/2020 at 3:15 PM, Dave S said:

If you are confident measuring live voltages, you can measure between the screw terminals T1 & T2, there should be 220-240V AC

You can also check the mains voltage between Fuse F1 & F6, again should be 220-240V AC.

@Dave S  not sure how to do this.  Just power up, then measure voltage by placing ProbeA on T1 and ProbeB on T2 ??  Same with fuses ?

———-

Fyi: machine seems to turn off the main drive / dryer motor around 5-10 minutes after turning on breaker switch, but color wheel & other components are still “on”.  

No error messages are displayed.

———-

On 7/8/2020 at 3:15 PM, Dave S said:

Would have to apply 24V DC to the relay coil and check the resistance of the contacts using a multimeter.

Did this. Both RELAYS are GOOD, performs as expected, but when changing from Open to Close, the sound is not as hearty or as strong as on the other 3 relays.

I had spare relays, so have replaced them both anyways.  Tested good after replacement, machine exhibits same issues as before replacement.

After 90 minutes, chems are still not warming up, and no error messages.

 

Next steps ?

Replace Processor control Pcb ?  Do we have to perform the  “Software update from HD” for the Processor control pcb after replacement ?

 

thank you very much for your help as always

dave

[Dave S 82]

On 7/12/2020 at 12:18 AM, Big Dave said:

@Dave S  not sure how to do this.  Just power up, then measure voltage by placing ProbeA on T1 and ProbeB on T2 ??  Same with fuses ?

———-

Fyi: machine seems to turn off the main drive / dryer motor around 5-10 minutes after turning on breaker switch, but color wheel & other components are still “on”.  

No error messages are displayed.

———-

Did this. Both RELAYS are GOOD, performs as expected, but when changing from Open to Close, the sound is not as hearty or as strong as on the other 3 relays.

I had spare relays, so have replaced them both anyways.  Tested good after replacement, machine exhibits same issues as before replacement.

After 90 minutes, chems are still not warming up, and no error messages.

 

Next steps ?

Replace Processor control Pcb ?  Do we have to perform the  “Software update from HD” for the Processor control pcb after replacement ?

 

thank you very much for your help as always

dave

Yes one probe on T1 and the other on T2,  with the power on and in normal operation mode. Same with the fuses. (Meter on AC volts)

It's normal for the drive and dryer to turn off after 5 minutes after power on.

I don't think it is the processor control PCB as, the LED's for the 3 SSR's are on, and the other LED's are on indicating the relay's are on. To me it's as if there is no power there to drive the heaters.

I'm going to ask a silly question, is J/P655 definitely plugged in to the Power PCB 1?

If you replace the processor control PCB, you should do a software upgrade from the HD just for the processor only, also load the the backup data in service mode you can just load the data for the processor.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Dave S

[Big Dave 15]

On 7/13/2020 at 3:38 AM, Dave S said:

I'm going to ask a silly question, is J/P655 definitely plugged in to the Power PCB 1?

@Dave S,Yes, that connector IS plugged in.

[davidlam 23]

@big dave,,, is problem fixed ? or . . 

[Big Dave 15]

On 8/13/2020 at 8:44 PM, davidlam said:

@big dave,,, is problem fixed ? or . . 

Hi all, sorry for the late response, but it was too random (weird?) for a while.... nothing else was replaced other than the two relays.

- Some days, the Noritsu would turn on and chems would be cold after 90 mins.  Shut off the breaker, turn it  back on, and heaters would work just fine, and we could start up after waiting for chems to heat up.
- Other days, no issues with heating, ~75-90 mins and chems ready to go.

- On a couple of days, it would say all chems are fully heated after only 25 minutes !!(confirmed with an external thermometer).  I don’t understand how, but ok.  

It stayed random like this for a few weeks until I had to replace the hard drive (don’t ask—very long, unbelievable and expensive story)  And on boot up with new OS and install of Noritsu software it did a complete upload of software to all PCBs.   After this, all the randomness went away.

It’s “good” now, but it sounds like some of the water pumps are always on.  (But they’re not)

As always, thanks to everyone for their help, and I hope to help others as I’ve been helped here.

👋 Thank you Dave S !  

[davidlam 23]

(It is weird ) agreed.  Nice to hear machine woke up and stays strong now.