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Big Dave

2901 Print Sorter Tray drops down (most times!)

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Hi all,

New "issue" ....

When smaller (<7") prints come out of the printer and onto the  conveyor, then onto the Print Sorter, the tray usually drops down before the prints come out, For 12 years, we've had no problems with this, until this past week. I've mangled the little sensor on the side of the sorter that senses (stops the trays) when the tray has reached  a certain point.  (Don't worry, the little sensor is FINE, but the side of the housing that it was screwed into has been "customized" :) )

Most of the time, 99.9999%, it's fine, but now, more than ever (1 out of 5 times) , its moving the trays down, but not "enough" for the new tray to DROP to where it's supposed to be, it stays "folded" near the top -- ALMOST out of the housing....  When I hear the paper prints hit the floor, is when I cringe.....

 

How do I adjust this PROPERLY ??

 

Thanks !

 

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also, we are getting error :

      6053-0001 Exposure Advance Unit Hold Error.

It has been doing it every morning for the past 3 days.  The motor has the new "blue" clutch(?)  but it is "over tightening" once in the home position.  

Normally, spinning the motor Clockwise "tightens it" and Counter-Clockwise "loosens it", but it is overtightened by around 7 or 8 full revolutions.before it breaks free and can be put back in place at a nice tension.

Is there any way to "reset" it's location so it doesn't keep doing this ?

Last year it was "under-tightening" it, and when you opened up the covers, it was loose and not in position.  Now, it's the exact opposite..

Thanks !

 

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The problem with these 99% of the time is the clutch unit (torque limiter). They seem to go tight in one direction (normally the locked direction) causing the unit to just spin and not unlock.
I have taken the clutch unit apart and bent the spring to open it slightly and re lubricated it, it's not the easiest thing to take apart and get back together again.

I've also used a clutch unit that is much looser (from a paper magazine) and reduced the spring tension on the mechanism, this seems to be the best permanent solution.

Unfortunately the parts are no longer available from Noritsu
The manufacture of the part is Origin type OTLC8 Torque value 3800C

 

For the sorter unit issue

Check the chain has not come off from the pulley wheels, as this will cause the chain to drag and not move quickly enough to flip the trays down. It's a horrible unit to work on!

 

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@Big Dave,, I have last piece of NEW  torque limiter [ ORIGIN 3800C ] clutch NEW .. under Noritsu part no. H046027-00,,, Noritsu discontinued long time ago.   see photos here. If interested, contact me davidlam@sinopromise.com, Hong Kong

if ORIGIN_3800C.thumb.jpg.8b751f1b8300565a97104e5cc23c9182.jpg

H046027-00.jpg

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Hmmm.... so it's not just a matter of tray position, but also of speed that the trays are brought into that position.... interesting. 

I believe the chain, is still on, I'm sure I "looked" at it while I was "customizing" the side where the sensor lives, but yeah, that thing is not going to be  fun to tear apart.    Maybe a good cleaning and lube job should get it going again ??  There is a bit of dust and other crap on the chain, so maybe that is slowing it down ?

 

Thanks for the pointers!

 

David Lam, please PM me, cost including shipping.  I would rather not spend money on it... I think I have a few spare torque limiters floating around here somewhere.  Thanks !

 

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Exposure Advance Unit Hold Error:  FIXED ! 

That was it !  Never knew exactly what a torque limiter did, but now that I know, I will never have to worry about this again.   Thanks for the tips, I can cross that off the list -- FOREVER ! 

I removed the motor, removed the torque limiter, pulled it apart (including the spring), cleaned it out, put it all back together, used  liberal amounts of white lithium grease  and it works like a charm.  And you are so right - removing and reinstalling that spring is a challenge.  

Tested the whole motor / torque limiter assembly Before and After and it's so obvious that it was just not working right, once you know what to look for !

Thanks again Dave !

 

On 10/27/2020 at 4:52 PM, Dave S said:

For the sorter unit issue

Check the chain has not come off from the pulley wheels, as this will cause the chain to drag and not move quickly enough to flip the trays down. It's a horrible unit to work on!

The Print Sorter tray is something else.... tore it apart easily, cleaned it easily, assembled it easily.  Getting it adjusted "JUST RIGHT" is almost impossible.
The chain was seated properly before disassembly, so it may not have been the primary reason for the tray flipping problem, but the chain was a bit stiff from really old grease. -- degreased, reapply new grease, and it is a lot more flexible and bendy.

Any other tricks for working on the sorter ?  Chain and belt tension is as close as I could 'proximate to what the documentation says, but it is one heck of a thing to get it to flip correctly every single time.  Even getting the tray stop position sensor in the right place was a bit difficult to understand, but it's been placed about where it originally was.   And the tray flipping issue still persists, but it is very clean (even all the trays)  Oh, do the white tray holders all have to be in a specific order ?  I removed everything off the chain before clean/lube and the trays were not kept in order.

Thanks !

 

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9 hours ago, Big Dave said:

Exposure Advance Unit Hold Error:  FIXED ! 

That was it !  Never knew exactly what a torque limiter did, but now that I know, I will never have to worry about this again.   Thanks for the tips, I can cross that off the list -- FOREVER ! 

I removed the motor, removed the torque limiter, pulled it apart (including the spring), cleaned it out, put it all back together, used  liberal amounts of white lithium grease  and it works like a charm.  And you are so right - removing and reinstalling that spring is a challenge.  

Tested the whole motor / torque limiter assembly Before and After and it's so obvious that it was just not working right, once you know what to look for !

Thanks again Dave !

 

The Print Sorter tray is something else.... tore it apart easily, cleaned it easily, assembled it easily.  Getting it adjusted "JUST RIGHT" is almost impossible.
The chain was seated properly before disassembly, so it may not have been the primary reason for the tray flipping problem, but the chain was a bit stiff from really old grease. -- degreased, reapply new grease, and it is a lot more flexible and bendy.

Any other tricks for working on the sorter ?  Chain and belt tension is as close as I could 'proximate to what the documentation says, but it is one heck of a thing to get it to flip correctly every single time.  Even getting the tray stop position sensor in the right place was a bit difficult to understand, but it's been placed about where it originally was.   And the tray flipping issue still persists, but it is very clean (even all the trays)  Oh, do the white tray holders all have to be in a specific order ?  I removed everything off the chain before clean/lube and the trays were not kept in order.

Thanks !

 

Good job on fixing the Advance Lock unit. It's not too bad once you know how!

For the sorter unit It's doesn't matter what order the white tray holders go in, they are all identical. I think the issue is the trays distort slightly over time, adding a weight (something like a coin) on to the paddle that flips out really seems to help, the extra weight makes the paddle flip down more reliably.

Try it and see if it helps.

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Hi all,

After some more "modifications" the Print Sorter works very well.  No issues with the tray coming down every time.
I noticed the little legs on the white tray holder and tried to use them to push the tray in front to lay flat -- I don't think they are "kicking" the tray down, but it's working now.

Had to :

  • add a deflector to the right side top of the paper conveyor tray
  • add something to lower the dark grey plastic paper stopper (on the outside top of the print sorter) so prints don't get thrown onto the floor
  • enlarge the opening for the tray stop sensor (cut DOWN) 
  • lower the position of the tray stop sensor so the next tray holder could "push" the new tray OUT and down.
  • then finally, add something to the bottom of the print sorter so that empty trays do not block the paper sensor and make it think there is paper there.

Here's some photos:

858410836_1IMG_0277.png.6530093c665b1867bedf12284e3689d9.png1830614934_2IMG-0276.png.709c14c9305a16094bb2d95ca3c6bd8a.png673299935_3IMG-0275.png.b28fc338176296aca5045ed6fe6388fe.png286866773_4-IMG_0278.png.4e0ea9e13a7ef71c67e6e7b2cacc5b2b.png601789509_5IMG-0258.png.580857764b82e565947552c5018a00e4.png

It works, just as good as before.

Good luck if you decide to do this yourself !

 

 

 

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