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V30, Fixer 2 heater

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I was having issues with Fixer two in my V30 not warming up and keep blowing the F2 fuse. Knowing that F2 fuse feeds both feeds Bleach and Fixer two, I disconnected the Fixer two heater element and now the machine works ok with no fix 2 heating and no F3 fuse burning now. I am having a hard time finding  a replacement part for this (250V, 3Amp, 100W) part but I have (250V, 3Amp,400W) heater element coming from my spare 3011 parts machine, identical physical specs, connector, etc.

Giving the fact that based on the schematics that I have, all heaters of V30 (100w ~ 400W) are driven by a 3 amp current, Solid State Relay, Relay,

CAN I USE THE 400W HEATING ELEMENT INSTEAD OF THE 100 WATT HEATING ELEMENT???

or its a bad idea and the processing board will get damaged and/or the additional wattage may cause overheating in the small FIX 2 thank, I know that when required temps are reached the power gets cut, but still, its 4 times the wattage.

 

Thank you

Rick

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10 hours ago, QualexTech said:

I was having issues with Fixer two in my V30 not warming up and keep blowing the F2 fuse. Knowing that F2 fuse feeds both feeds Bleach and Fixer two, I disconnected the Fixer two heater element and now the machine works ok with no fix 2 heating and no F3 fuse burning now. I am having a hard time finding  a replacement part for this (250V, 3Amp, 100W) part but I have (250V, 3Amp,400W) heater element coming from my spare 3011 parts machine, identical physical specs, connector, etc.

Giving the fact that based on the schematics that I have, all heaters of V30 (100w ~ 400W) are driven by a 3 amp current, Solid State Relay, Relay,

CAN I USE THE 400W HEATING ELEMENT INSTEAD OF THE 100 WATT HEATING ELEMENT???

or its a bad idea and the processing board will get damaged and/or the additional wattage may cause overheating in the small FIX 2 thank, I know that when required temps are reached the power gets cut, but still, its 4 times the wattage.

 

Thank you

Rick

The SSR's are 2A not 3A on the V30/V50. 

The V50 uses a 400W heater for the CD and STB so the circuit board will handle a 400W heater, but the V50 has a cooling fan fitted where as the V30 does not, so there is a risk of the circuit board getting too hot with the extra load of a 400W heater on the V30.

So it is not something I would recommend you do.

Edited by Dave S

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8 hours ago, davidlam said:

I have all wattage Noritsu chemical heaters in stock ( 100, 200, 400, 600 & 1,000 W -wattage). Noritsu genuine ones. see photo

  

heaters.jpeg

That's a nice box to have!

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On film processor used SSR D2W202LD18 ( 2A , 240V ) . It can work at power up to 400 W ( current would be about 1.75 A ) . 

On QSF-V30 used 100 - 300 W heaters and on QSF-V50 used 200 - 400 W heaters. The same SSR on both models, so they can control 400 W heater.

Instead 100 W heater better to use similar power heater ( for example 200 W ) . On QSF-V30 BL and FX1 used 100 W heaters and on QSF-V50 - 200 W. So if 200 W heater is not too long for QSF-V30 tank you can use it there. On QSF-V30 200 W heater is on FIX2. Take this heater and look is it good to use on BL or FX1.

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On 1/12/2021 at 5:01 AM, Minilab service said:

On film processor used SSR D2W202LD18 ( 2A , 240V ) . It can work at power up to 400 W ( current would be about 1.75 A ) . 

On QSF-V30 used 100 - 300 W heaters and on QSF-V50 used 200 - 400 W heaters. The same SSR on both models, so they can control 400 W heater.

Instead 100 W heater better to use similar power heater ( for example 200 W ) . On QSF-V30 BL and FX1 used 100 W heaters and on QSF-V50 - 200 W. So if 200 W heater is not too long for QSF-V30 tank you can use it there. On QSF-V30 200 W heater is on FIX2. Take this heater and look is it good to use on BL or FX1.

How can I test D2W202LD18 ? I have the heaters now and if I switch them around I know that the heaters are working, but I get no contact on fix 2 and susspect that the SSR is dead, how can I test them? can I test them? Thank You !

 

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Just now, QualexTech said:

How can I test D2W202LD18 ? I have the heaters now and if I switch them around I know that the heaters are working, but I get no contact on fix 2 and susspect that the SSR is dead, how can I test them? can I test them? Thank You !

 

Also where can I buy the SSR's???

 

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On 1/12/2021 at 5:01 AM, Minilab service said:

On film processor used SSR D2W202LD18 ( 2A , 240V ) . It can work at power up to 400 W ( current would be about 1.75 A ) . 

On QSF-V30 used 100 - 300 W heaters and on QSF-V50 used 200 - 400 W heaters. The same SSR on both models, so they can control 400 W heater.

Instead 100 W heater better to use similar power heater ( for example 200 W ) . On QSF-V30 BL and FX1 used 100 W heaters and on QSF-V50 - 200 W. So if 200 W heater is not too long for QSF-V30 tank you can use it there. On QSF-V30 200 W heater is on FIX2. Take this heater and look is it good to use on BL or FX1.

YOU ARE ABSOULOUTLY CORRECT, AFTER STUDING THE SCHEMATIC FOR V30 AND V50 I CAN SEE THAT BOTH USE D2W202LD18 THAT CAN HANDLE UP TO 400w, THEY ARE EVEN USED IN V100 THAT USES 400W AND 600W, FOR THE 600w IN V100 SSR  AG80159G01 IS USED WHERE FOR THE 400W THE V100 USES D2W202LD18, VERY INTERESTING.

 

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3 hours ago, QualexTech said:

How can I test D2W202LD18 ? I have the heaters now and if I switch them around I know that the heaters are working, but I get no contact on fix 2 and susspect that the SSR is dead, how can I test them? can I test them? Thank You !

 

It's rare for SSR's to fail in the off state, it's more likely to be bad solder joints on the back of the power PCB.

You can test each heater in output check mode.

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3 hours ago, QualexTech said:

YOU ARE ABSOULOUTLY CORRECT, AFTER STUDING THE SCHEMATIC FOR V30 AND V50 I CAN SEE THAT BOTH USE D2W202LD18 THAT CAN HANDLE UP TO 400w, THEY ARE EVEN USED IN V100 THAT USES 400W AND 600W, FOR THE 600w IN V100 SSR  AG80159G01 IS USED WHERE FOR THE 400W THE V100 USES D2W202LD18, VERY INTERESTING.

 

Yes but remember the V50 and V100 have a cooling fan fitted so the relays can handle the higher load.

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10 hours ago, Dave S said:

It's rare for SSR's to fail in the off state, it's more likely to be bad solder joints on the back of the power PCB.

You can test each heater in output check mode.

So I checked  them in output mode, CD and stab are all good, Fix 1 out put check works cause I pulled the heater out and could feel it warming up,  Fix2 out put check you can hear the relays but no heat on the heater, I switched this heater briefly with Fix 1 and activated the out put check and it heats up, so I know that I have a working heater.

 

But, here is the kicker, both Fix 1 and Fix 2 do not heat up when in normal operation mode all others, CD BL And STB work normal.

So while Fix 1 works on output check, it doesn't work normally.

and Fix 2 does NOT work on output check and does not work normally but has a good working heater.

I am trying to understand the scenario that Fix 1 works on out put check and not normally ????

And on top of these now I have a new issue, when in warmup mode after a few minutes I get 023-3 Fix 2 error, SOLN. S_THERMO ACTIVATED and can not clear the error ????

I am leaning towards failed SSR's on both Fix1 and Fix2, Your thoughts is appreciated. "Dave" and "minilab services" and everyone else please.

Rick

Edited by QualexTech

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1 hour ago, QualexTech said:

So I checked  them in output mode, CD and stab are all good, Fix 1 out put check works cause I pulled the heater out and could feel it warming up,  Fix2 out put check you can hear the relays but no heat on the heater, I switched this heater briefly with Fix 1 and activated the out put check and it heats up, so I know that I have a working heater.

 

But, here is the kicker, both Fix 1 and Fix 2 do not heat up when in normal operation mode all others, CD BL And STB work normal.

So while Fix 1 works on output check, it doesn't work normally.

and Fix 2 does NOT work on output check and does not work normally but has a good working heater.

I am trying to understand the scenario that Fix 1 works on out put check and not normally ????

And on top of these now I have a new issue, when in warmup mode after a few minutes I get 023-3 Fix 2 error, SOLN. S_THERMO ACTIVATED and can not clear the error ????

I am leaning towards failed SSR's on both Fix1 and Fix2, Your thoughts is appreciated. "Dave" and "minilab services" and everyone else please.

Rick

I really don't recommend you test the heaters outside of liquid, if the heater gets too hot the thermal fuse will blow inside the heater and you will have to replace the heater.

S-Thermo Activated means the safety overheat thermostat in the float switch has detected the liquid is above around 42 C, in this condition it will switch off the heaters.
If the liquid is not this hot, it will be a problem with the float switch or a bad connection on the wiring for the float switch.

Check the thermo sensors, or float switches in the Fix1 and Fix2 tanks have not got swapped around.
Check the circulation pumps are operating normally.

Have you taken the Power 1 PCB off and checked the solder joints on the SSR's?

 

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58 minutes ago, Dave S said:

I really don't recommend you test the heaters outside of liquid, if the heater gets too hot the thermal fuse will blow inside the heater and you will have to replace the heater.

S-Thermo Activated means the safety overheat thermostat in the float switch has detected the liquid is above around 42 C, in this condition it will switch off the heaters.
If the liquid is not this hot, it will be a problem with the float switch or a bad connection on the wiring for the float switch.

Check the thermo sensors, or float switches in the Fix1 and Fix2 tanks have not got swapped around.
Check the circulation pumps are operating normally.

Have you taken the Power 1 PCB off and checked the solder joints on the SSR's?

 

Thank you Dave, I do take the heater out for a 5-10 seconds and not any more.

The temps on fix1 and fix2 do not rise above room temp so my thermo sensor or the connector may be faulty.

All the wiring is triple checked with all the connector labels and no mismatch here, if I ever swap them around I do them one at a time and put them back immediately etc.

I haven't taken the Power pcb out yet, its a great lookin board but I get the idea, I have another batch of films to process and also trying to find some SSR's at the mean time. Then I will take the board out and look for soldering issues and if not then I can replace the SSR's.

Do you know any electronic company, in USA preferably,  for getting the SSR's ???

Thanks

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35 minutes ago, QualexTech said:

Do you know any electronic company, in USA preferably,  for getting the SSR's ???

Thanks

Digikey or Mouser Electronics should have something, just make sure the electrical specifications are the same or better and that the pin spacings match.

Edited by Dave S

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5 hours ago, Dave S said:

Digikey or Mouser Electronics should have something, just make sure the electrical specifications are the same or better and that the pin spacings match.

Thank you,

Digikey is a no go and I have come across the mouser earlier today by my camera repair friend.

 

please define "better Specs" 

is any of these going to work?

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Crydom/D2W203F-11/?qs=%2Fha2pyFaduhoQVx8%2FTsuHELF9coA59hRntvkN13MFl8%3D

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Crydom/D2W202F/?qs=%2Fha2pyFaduj9Y8VsiqBHf4Qoy4d6q0xWIuiCM1Kp9h4%3D

I talked with their tech support and he just gave me a generic answer of not 100% compatible and not recommended, but I think these Are qualified as better, right ? 

 

I am not too worried about their pin alignment at this pint, my machine is down and I am not about to spend 1K for an unknown condition board off of ebay or else and rather solder a few components.

 

Thank you>

 

 

Edited by QualexTech

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D2W202LD18 is SSR, zero cross switching type, 240 V ( peak 600 V ) , 2A , control 3 - 6 V ( on circuit it is 5V ) . Dimensions 43 x 20 x 9 mm , pinout pin 1 and pin 2 -a.c. , pin 3 control + , pin 4 control - . Distance between control pins - 5 mm, distance between a.c. pins - 10 mm, distance between pin 2 and pin 3 - 12.5 mm .

Use any SSR with the same, or similar specification. Can be better specification ( higher voltage, bigger current,  wider control range ( for example 3 - 15V ) , dimensions ( different size with similar spacing ) and other.

If on control pins you have control voltage ( about 5V ), SSR output is connected well but you have not voltage on heater then SSR is not working.

If to short SSR output pins on heater should be voltage. Can be that one  SSR output pin is not connected well ( bad soldering, broken track ) . Then even if SSR is good heater will not get voltage.

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I forgot to mention, you need to confirm the actual temperature in the tank matches what the machine is displaying. If there are bad connections on the thermosensors the display will read lower than the actual tank temperature.

With regard to better specs I was thinking of, if for example you can’t find a 2A 240V SSR it would be fine to use a 3A 250V SSR instead. The control voltage will need to be in a similar range of 3-5V DC though, anything than needs a switching voltage above 5V DC will not switch on the SSR in this application. (3-32V is fine in your linked SSR).
The ones in your links look OK though they are a bit thicker compared to the original, so you may need to bend the other SSR’s on the board to create space for them.

Like I said it’s extremely rare for these SSR’s to fail in the completely off state, all the failures I have encountered have been the SSR not switching off properly causing the solution temperature to go too high. In 99% of the no power going to the heater faults the cause is not the SSR.

 

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