Mixing Fuji Startup Kit for 3701F

[dajudge]

We are having to drain the chemicals because we're had cross contamination of the P1 and P2.  We have cleaned the tanks and are ready to mix the new startup kits.  Fuji CP49E Startup P1 and P2 kits.  Our problem is our tanks hold 12.9L and the kit instructions say either 2 bottles for 7.1L - 7.3L or 3 bottles for 11L.  Do we use all 4 bottles and just have strong chemicals or mix 3 and have them diluted.  Any suggestions on how to get the proper chemical balance.

[XXLtdLab]

Can't you just mix from RA replenisher (not a "kit") adding starter?  Then take whatever replenisher is left and the machine can use that to keep the working tank fresh. . .

These are those damned nozzle chemicals, right?  With the replenisher solutions, just call up the chemistry provider and ask them for a "split."  They'll tell you how many liters, gallons, fl. oz., or mL of solution you have in the replenisher "jug" and you just cut it open and add a certain amount of starter before pouring it into the tank.  Then whatever you have left can be used.

I'd say, if you have extra working tank left over, you just sacrifice it and dump it down the drain if you don't have the knowledge or facilities to properly use it.  Given a choice though, it's better to be too "hot" (concentrated) than too dilute.  You'll get extra contrast, bias, and warm color with over-replenished chemistry, and could see some crossover (color shifts in the highlights or shadows).

[Dave S]

So from what you have said each bottle makes around 3.67 Litres.

So using 3.5 bottles would give you approx 12.85 Litres (3.67 x 3 + 1.85)

So use just a little over half of the last bottle and that will be about right!

As XXLtdLab has said it's better for the chemistry to be slightly over active rather than under active.

[XXLtdLab]

Dave:  Do you know anything about the chemistry being used?  If it's designed to make a fresh tank and not to replenish, then it can't be used without some sort of regenerator.

Developer kits without starters, am I missing something here?

[Dave S]

Anything that is labelled "start up Kit" means you either use it neat straight from the bottle or you just add water to it, no additional starter etc is needed.

CP49E chemistry is in a pack (like Kodak SM) for replenisher.

I found this information sheet http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/600005391.pdf

[Dave S]

Your machine is actually a Fuji 750 yes?

If so the instructions are here http://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/600006485.pdf

[aussiecameras]

A bit of talk about regenerators ....  that is taking me back a few years, maybe 30?

Its all so simple now!

[XXLtdLab]

I guess it depends on where you're coming from.  For me, I worry about "peace of mind."  Not dumping chemicals down the drain before they're exhuasted, I have no more tank space to put them gives me that peace.

I am not saying we're still using regenerators, very few labs have that volume anymore.  What I'm saying is that I'm still confused if this is a "start-up kit" or a "replenisher kit."  With developer, as far as I know with the RA-4 process, you need dedicated starter to turn the replenisher into working-tank solution.

Once you have that, though, the bottle of starter, it'll last you for months, years, and you don't have to buy separate start-up chemistry, you just have replenisher and you can mix as much as you like for start-up (adding starter) but then all the rest can be dumped in the replenisher tank and can keep your chemistry fresh. . .

Am I missing something here?  I'm not trying to make this complex, and if this is anything like RA-2SM chemistry, or other prosumer/minilab chemistry, I confess I'm pretty ignorant.  But if you can't add 100 and 900 mL together to make a working tank from a replenisher, if that is "too complex" people are pulling money out of your rear end.

I'm not suggesting anyone start up a regenerated line, an RA-4 machien with a separate bleach and fixer to save money, do any titration, pH adjustment, specific gravity in this thread.

But are you spending money, dajudge, on expensive chemistry to make a "working tank" just because you can't be bothered to mix REPLENISHER, STARTER, AND WATER?  That I cannot abide, or understand.  Then you're either dumping the rest down the drain, or mixing the working tank solution too "hot" (active) or "cold" innactive.

My objection is that you're paying a mint for someone else to mix water and starter for you.  A child can mix three things together in a simple proportion.  You don't even need graduated measuring devices, just buy a bottle, make a mark where the chemistry is and see how much is on there, and you can add that increment of water or starter filling up to that line.

[Dave S]

Yes with standard RA-4 chemistry you mix up replenisher and add starter and extra water to make the CD working tank.

But Fuji CP49E and RA-2SM are box chemistry (not a RA-4 process) there is no mixing of chemistry for the replenisher. Simply the chemistry box is put on the machine and the machine does the rest.

So to make a tank solution a "start up kit" is sold. This is the only way to make up a fresh tank with these box type chemistry systems.

[aussiecameras]

In theory I guess you could start with the replenisher but the liquid in the boxes is highly concentrated and it never has been recommended to mix from that. The replenisher pumps send a very small quantity of chemistry each time and water is pumped in at the same time.

I reckon the tank mix chemistry is much cheaper too and as we have all said the tank volumes are small.

One of the replenishment boxes costs about $250 for maybe a litre or so of concentrate.

The tank developer is about $5 a litre.

You would be very foolish to experiment with odds like that!