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V30 Temp solution error


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[face=Geneva][/face]Hi, we have a Noritsu V30 neg machine which every day is showing temperature error in Stabilizer 1. Temp keeps rising over set amount of 38 until it shows error. Temp amount has been as high as 44. We have been through the manuals and can't see how to fix this. Help please. Thank you also for having this website for people like us! from Lincam. (NEWBIES)

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Check your recirculation pumps are running and that the chemicals are been moved around.

Remove the chemical filter. The heater in the small side tank should be turning off once it reaches the set temperature but the temperature will peak over that temperature as the heater is still hot. If you have no movement in the solution it will peak and trough. Check your pumps.

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Agree Magenta, Stab#1 can get pretty mucky, check filter and circulation pump. Personaly been lucky and not had this problem, so never had a circulation pump apart. If they have popet valves it would be a fair bet that there is a sticky/partialy blocked valve, assuming the filter is clear.

Good luck lincam, and wellcome to the Forum.

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thanx for that magenta, ill try have a look, is it easy to get to the recirculation pumps? We have tried to clean tanks and change chemicals and changed filter and cleaned what i thought was the temp probe. have looked in manual for circulation pump but all looks a bit confusing, any more healp what so ever would be appreciated... t almost seems like a thermostat problem as it just doesnt cut out when it reaches the right temperature, cheers guys for helping

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If measured temperature is same as on screen (ex 44) then you temperature probe is working OK.

If you have circulation (visible when filter is out, and there is no circ pump error), then your circulation pump is also OK.

What is left, SSR (solid state relay) which does not cut off the 220V for that heater, ask some electronic guy to take a look, and exchange it with good one  ;)

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Thank you for the reply pskaro.. The measured temp is the same on screen as it is when measured with a thermometer i the stab1 tank, there is also obvious circulation visible in the tank when the filter is removed and there  has been no error message regarding the circ pump so i will definitely try to get hold of some kind electronic tech to check out the "SSR"... i had a look through the manual and couldn't find the "SSR" so hopefully someone that knows what they are doing will have better luck. My problem is that we have recently purchased the business and there is no maintenance contract on the neg machine... hence no one (who knows about the machines and services them) is willing to provide much helpful information. Apart from that i live in a remote country area far from the city so its not like a technician can just drop in to have a look. As we don't put through an awful lot of film we have had to add small amounts of iced water to tank to keep the temp down till we manage to rush through the film processing. I also thought the problem would be some sort of thermostat issue as stab1 heats up ok , it's just that it doesn't stop heating. I will try to find some electronic tech guy locally to see if he can fix. "HVALA" again for all your help and have a great easter. cheers

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lincam,

Instead of adding "ice water" or Ice Cubes, try those little frozen sugar pops in plastic.  They're available at your local grocery store and are in a long plastic tube about 12" - 13" long and about 3/4" to 1" in diameter in the frozen food section.  

Just remove the filter and put in 1 or 2 into the chemistry to cool the chemistry down so you can process the film rolls and remove when they've melted; then just re-freeze them for the next time.  

ALSO MAKE SURE they're inserted at an angle so they don't BLOCK the inlet to the circulation pump.

It's stupid, it's cheap, it's easy, and it works for cooling your chemistry so you can continue processing film... but it's a temporary fix.

Just make sure there's no leaks in the plastic tubes and discard them if you smell anything sweet.

It does what you're doing now, but without diluting the chemistry with extra water.

BTW: SSR = Solid State Relay

PLEASE UPDATE YOUR PROFILE WITH YOUR LOCATION INFORMATION.

Hope this helps.

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"HVALA" again for all your help and have a great easter. cheers

Oooo, You know some words in Croatian language  :), OK rest off this post will be in Croatian  ;), just kidding  8)

SSR is actually driving the heater and it works like relay (more or less, only without coil  ;)), but sometimes it can be blocked on 220V output and then there is no cut off even if there is no signal for it  :-/

You can try to disconnect the heater and lower the temperature in the temperature setting menu (to avoid low temperature error), it will still have some heat from surrounding tanks ;-)

Also, have a great easter.

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I agree with Pskaro. For STB you can temporarily disconnect (unplug) the heater and then adjust the tank temp setting to whatever it settles down to....... probably about 27-28C ambient over the period of a day. The Fixer tank will maintain some level of heat transfer  to the STB without too much fluctuation, unless you get a run of 100 films eh!

Make sure you turn off the power before unplugging the heater. It is at line potential, and if you don't you may also zap the SSR if it wasn't already the problem. All cartridge heaters now have internal thermal fuses so obviously your heater is not in a thermal runaway  condition due to a temp probe issue, otherwise the fuse might blow.

We have quite often done this when the heater has actually failed, sometimes lasting  for weeks until the spare  part arrived.

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I love this Forum, It must be one of the best on the web.

  Popsicles! a true engineering solution, brilliant. Reminds me of a £1.5million Aluminium extruder that was kept going by half a pair of Levi's (one end in a bucket of water and capilliary action to give exactly the correct amount of cooling).

Good luck with the new parts Lincam.

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Thank you to everyone who has helped us!

It really is great to have a site like this as sometimes it feels like you're the only person having these problems and its great hearing from everyone and all the great ideas.

Just want to say that i tried the icy poles  out today and they worked a treat!!! Only used one at a time and they kept the temp at a constant 38c.... What a great trick... I found the apple/black currant flavour did particularly well at cooling ( the machine as well as myself)

Have booked an electronics guy to come have a look at our machine and hopefully fixing it.... Once again a big BIG thank you to everyone who has helped... GREATLY APPRECIATED GUYS!!!!!

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The V30 usually only has one heater in the STB 3 sub tank, the pump on tank 3 also circulates the STB from tank 3 around tank 1 and 2 via a metal pipe that sits in the sub tanks on tank 1 & 2.

If all three tanks measure approximately the same temperature with an external thermometer etc, then the problem will be the solid state relay (SSR5) is not switching the heater off when it should do.

If it is only the last STB tank that is hot, the problem will be down to the circulation pump being blocked, or not running etc.

You can check the pump is running in input check mode, processor, STB3 circulation pump, it should show as on if the pump is turning ok.

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