2901 Error 5532- Processing Solut.Safety Thermosta

[Big Dave]

Hi all,

We've been getting this error intermittently on our 2901 when we come into the store in the morning.

"Error # 5532 - Processing Solution Safety Thermostat has activated."

At first we thought it was based on room temperature - On cold winter nights, no problems in the morning, On hot/warm nights this error message would greet us in the morning.  We would leave the A/C on overnight, and it would still show up, other times, it wouldn't show up.  There's no real pattern to this. Two days in a row, exact same temperatures, First day no error message, next day error message.

Could there be a problem with a temperature sensor, or PCB ?

Thanks all !

[Photographis]

Hi Dave, I have had a similar problem with an old 2611. Check with Noritsu that there have been no changes in the PCB/ heating elements, which your machine may have missed. If you are a 'second user', you won't get the new parts free, but you will at least know if there is a problem. The one on the 2611 made it a known fire hazard, therefore unless fixed, your fire insurance would be null. Just turn the timer off, that way at least if it does go nuclear when warming up, there are staff at hand to isolate it at the least, if not extinguish it. And save the lab!!

[NeilT]

If my memory is correct, as photographis says, I am sure all of the Thermostats on the 2901 had a recall from Noritsu....

[photocorp]

Noritsu Replacement Instruction R503226-00 covers the (safety upgrade) procedure and replacement for  heater cartridges on all Noritsu QSS eqpt. New, and now current  Part/No's are listed in this document. The mod was free at that point in time. Each service division (Kodak-Australia) needed to provide Noritsu with an inventory of all machine serial numbers nationally, to enable Noritsu to supply a kit for each processor. If you missed out, blame your support office.

There is usually an 18 months to two years window on a free upgrade but I think this came out in about 2003(?) when we tech's were running around all day modding customers machines for about six months.

For the QSS 2611. Upgrade kit for SSR relay PCB2 ("incendiary device with a long fuse") was covered in  TI 503568-01.......

[Photographis]

Nice one Photocorp.

Any indications on when the fuse is about done? And whats in the kit ? My lab is third user, and I have no 'suport office'.

Please tell me more.

[photocorp]

The heater cartridge  upgrade replaced the original item with one which incorporated a thermal fuse integrally inside the cartridge. Once this blew, it cannot be reset.....buy a new heater. This mod was introduced I believe as there were occurences where operators removing racks for maintenance or paper jams without shutting down the machine!

If the float switches were gummed up with crystals then the heater would simply keep running and burn a nice hole in the wall of the tank. Very costly and labour intensive.

As for your error: 5532. Processing soln Safety Thermo........

These are located in the float swithces for CD BF and STB. They go open @ 42.0C and close @ 36.0C therabouts. If one goes then all the heaters will turn off and the pumps also turn off. So looks like one of yours is a "dud suck". Over a period of time, there can be a chemical ingress of the plastic and the unit gets solution inside causing all sorts of wierd errors such as you describe. Sounds like it's intermittent, so you need to be on hand with a meter to check the electrical integrity as soon as the error appears.

Of course it may also be a "lazy" recirc pump too.... altho if this was the problem with CD and BL you would get a pump stopped error. Bearing in mind it has to go open circuit for the error to appear, I would first suspect the STB device/wiring or STB recirc pump(s).

Good luck.

[photocorp]

Big dave.

It's easy to confirm if your heaters have been upgraded by the shape of the cartridge. It's different...... For the old, the pyro heater  element tube is  parallel of equal diameter (1cm) over the whole of it's length (about 20cm). The new ones are stepped (from about 1.2cm dia) to a point 80cm from the flange and insulation boot.  So you might say they're tapered in broad terms. There was also a unique code  167/117 appended to the stem of the cartridge where all the specs are labled.

Just one more thing. To clarify, these thermostats  for the CD BL and STB which may be  the root of your problem are a component of the float switch. For 2901 these are to  connectors J/P 780, 781 & 785.  The solution level sensors  are on pins 1 & 3 and the safety thermostat is connected to pins 6 & 8.

Back to you.

[Dave S]

All printer-processors from the 28 series to present models should already have the new type heaters with the internal thermal fuse already fitted. The heater modification was only for machines prior to the 28 series.

The new type heaters have a black rubber elbow where the cable goes into the top of the heater; on the old type heaters the rubber elbow is grey.

The film processors however were only updated after a certain date, so if your film processor is older than your printer, it may need the new type heaters fitting.

Now back to the problem!

The problem is most likely down to poor circulation of the chemistry.

Sometimes it

[Big Dave]

Good news : the Heating Cartridges rubber elbow boots are BLACK.

Bad news : we got the error again this morning (consistently for the past 4 days)

This problem only occurs once in the morning, with no issues during the daytime.

          (We don't really use our AC during the daytime as we have a very good airflow through the store, but during extremely hot summer days, the CD does want to overheat during the day, but I attribute it to the magnetic pumps getting hot and heating the CD even though the heater should be "off")

Dave S: Great Info.  We use the string filters, not the hard plastic filters.  When this issue first popped up, we replaced all the chemical filters (just to be safe), but it didn't help since we got the error the next morning.  But the day after that no error message.  Now it's happening every day.

We'll try and remove the STB chem filters tonight and see what happens.

[Big Dave]

OK, no issues this morning, and the STB "swirl" for the first 3 is great, but the last one is BARELY moving at all. In percentages (approx), it swirls about 5% the rate of the other 3.

Now what does this prove ?  One of the pumps IS NOT partially blocked, and it's a function of a bad filter ?

Does this mean there IS poor circulation, and how do we "fix" it ?

It's going to get hot over here in the next week or so, and I'll try removing the filters nightly for the next couple of days to see if the problem re-occurs.  

[Big Dave]

:-/ Don't know what to say about this, but by removing the filter cartridges from the STB (at night), no errors for the past 2 mornings.

What does this mean ?  Clogged pump ?

[NeilT]

Going back many years, we had a problem with a lab, where the actual pipes had become clogged due to the local water, we found a fix by adding epsom salts to the water.... just another idea

[Big Dave]

Neil, do you mean adding epsom salt to the water WITH the chemistry ??

Or after emptying the tanks, and running clean water with lots of epsom salt to clear the pipes, then adding fresh chemistry ?

Please clarity.

Thank you !

Dave

[NeilT]

when we had this problem, and it was a long time back on a old Kodak system 40  :-/ we had a number of pipes that had got clogged by calcium I believe. After cleaning or should I say scrubbing out the pipes, with a lot of scapeing etc, we used to do new chemical mixes, with the salts added to the chemical mix, this made the water softer, and stopped the build up in the pipes. As I say this was a long time back, but it worked then.

[Big Dave]

Thanks Neil, None of the other machines have a calcium buildup, so I don't think this would be necessary.

We tried removing just the filter for STB4 (last one) and it seems to be the problem child.  When it's IN, we get the error in the morning, when it's OUT, no error in the morning.

We looked at the STB4 pipes (they're clear plastic) and they have a little bit of slime, but nothing else.

What else can we do or check ?

Thanks all !

[Dave S]

Drain down the last STB tank, remove the last STB rack, remove the last STB circulation pump, remove the top of the pump and check the impeller spins freely, check the inlet and outlet pipes on the pump are not partially blocked by anything.

The last STB pump has to circulate through the other 3 STB tanks, so if there is a slight blockage somewhere the circulation will be reduced. As you can see from the diagram, the route is pretty torturous!

You may want to connect a hose pipe on to the outlet pipe removed from the pump (the pipe at the side of the pump) and check the liquid comes out into the Last STB tank without much of a restriction.

In my opinion the last STB tank should have a higher output pump, as it has to circulate more than the other 3 STB tanks do.

[Big Dave]

Dave S, I was afraid you'd make a suggestion like this.  

When I do remove the pump and check it's innards, what if I do some "creative plumbing" to help mitigate future recurrences ?

Such as either A or B below ?

    A) bypassing the first 2 upper loops going through the other 3 STB tanks ?  (makes me wonder what the engineers were thinking)  

     installing a bigger pump ?  My 2302SM "spare parts" machine has a working CD pump which could possibly increase the flow rate.

Thoughts ?

[Dave S]

As there is only 1 heater for the last STB tank, it needs to loop through the other three tanks in order to keep them heated. If you bypass a tank that tank will be colder than the rest, which can sometimes cause a mottled effect on the prints.

If you can't find any kind of obvious blockage, (often it's just something like a plastic C clip stuck in the input side of the pump) then I would go for your second option of fitting a slightly larger pump, if the space will allow it.

But bear in mind if the pump is too strong, the STB in the last tank will end up like washing up liquid!

[Big Dave]

Thank you very much Dave !  Didn't realize it was also heating up the other 3 tanks....

We'll check the pump and let you guys know how it went.  

[Big Dave]

Dave S,  We removed the pump and checked the impeller, but it was clean, no buildup, no blockage, no bits of anything from the string filters.

The input and output pipes were good and had no blockage.    Hopefully we re-assembled the pump and clamps properly !  The mag pump was very similar to the one on my fish tank, just bigger !

Just to be safe, we've kept the STB4 filter OUT to avoid the error message.

What next ?  Just replace the pump with a similar one ?  I don't want "washing up liquid!"

[Dave S]

It's possible the pump has aged and its output is not as strong as when it was new.

You can try swapping it with one of the other STB pumps; as far as I know they're all the same.

If that does not work I guess you can try using the larger SM pump, I doubt it will be so strong as to cause the STB to turn into foam!

[Photographis]

But if it is, turn the lights down and pump up the music!!

Sorry, couldn't resist.

[Luani]

Hello ,

I want to bay uset Noritsu 2901 ra 4 , Who can help me please let me knouw.

luani@zeelandnet.nl

003161968900