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QSS-2301 photos sticking and no effluent !!


Big Dave

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Hi all,

Our 2301 processor has recently started having some problems.

The FIRST problem is that photos are getting partially stuck together in the processor section.  I can see them entering the dryer (partially) stuck together, so the problem is somewhere in the processor.  What could be wrong ?  

When trying to troubleshoot it after hours I can't replicate the problem to identify which rack or crossover rack is causing the problem.

The SECOND problem is that the CD chemistry effluent tank has been EMPTY at the end of the day for the past 2 days.  I have checked the replenishment rates for the water and it matches what it's set to correctly.  I've even manually poured in some water and the overflow does drain into the effluent tank, but during the past 2 days we've averaged about 35 rolls a day, and there should be PLENTY of effluent, but there's NONE.  Color quality is excellent, but the CD is looking "darker" than normal.

Any suggestions for either above problem ??  Are they related ?

Dave in LA.

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Hi Big Dave,

It looks as though your developer isnt replenishing. Check the condition of your processor with a control strip, this will tell you if you have a replenishment problem. Is it just the dev that isnt returning effluent? or are you not getting any effluent at all?

Denis

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I was notified of this from my employees yesterday afternoon, so that's when I started tinkering with the machine....

Photographis: The 3 CD (CD-A, CD-B, CD-C) pumps are working and they are replenishing the correct amounts - Pump output amounts match pump amounts.

Denis: It's just the dev that's not returning effluent.   The Ag effluent amounts are "normal" for the volume of film we're cranking through (rather high because of Easter)

Yesterday, during the day as we're printing film, for every roll, I was watching as the chemistry and water pumps into the CD(developer) tank, but at the end of the day there was nothing pumping out.  I did an OUTPUT check on the effluent pump, and it works just fine, the button on the effluent door works just fine, I'm at a loss... maybe my fiddling yesterday scared the machine into working correctly ???

I'll let you guys know if this problem is OK later today.  Same thing with the photos sticking together issue...

Dave in LA

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Hi Dave (again) The problem with the sticking prints tend to be rubber rollers expanding. The problem is mainly paper dev top two rollers (dev exit) these may become orange peel effect. or bottem roller in dev swolllen or just may be dirty chemical sludge, making the paper slip.Swollen rollers makes the paper  begin to catch up with the previous sheet. Also the plastic roller guides at each end begin to get worn as the rollers expand, forcing two rollers that work as squegees so tight that these plastic guides are safety nets to prevent major rack issues this makes the plastic guide oval.Mainly at the top of the racks.

Ref. rep problem. I have had noritsu's some years ago, I can remember I had to clean the input valve filters every month or so (As they kept getting clogged up). Could be worth checking it out on the dev.

Denis

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Hi Neil, The overflow pipes are fine.  To test this theory, I poured in 1 cup of water into the CD chem tank and watched it drain into the CD effluent tanks, so the pipe is OK.

Today we only had 11 rolls of film, and the photo sticking issue DID NOT OCCUR.

But we only got out about 75-150ml of effluent out of the CD effluent tanks - which is negligible, considering we got a "normal" amount of Ag effluent.

This really baffles....   I'll keep you guys posted.

Dave in LA

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Denis,

Sorry, but we don't do process control strips..... I've never figured that part of the business out.... If the color is Great, leave it alone, otherwise dump, clean and replace the chemistry -- or spike one of the 3 and see what happens - usually CD (last done around 6 months ago).

re: Sticking prints: I noticed yesterday some swollen rollers on top crossover rack 4 & 5 so I replaced those with spares from our "spare parts" machine - which may have helped the issue since we had no stuck prints today.  I also thoroughly checked & cleaned all the other top racks yesterday as a safety precaution - There was NO orange peel, but a little chemical sludge on the dev crossover rack which I cleaned off.  The plastic roller guides are good and not TOO worn out, just a super tiny bit of play, nothing to be concerned about.

re: CD effluent issue: what / where is the input valve filter in the CD (dev) ?  If you can describe it, I'll find and check it.

Neil: another comment: when I run some prints through the machine with the processor cover OPEN, I can watch the paper roll through the processor, and watch the CD pumps running and adding chem and water, but the working tank levels stay nice and level -- meaning the overflow pipe is clear and draining properly, and the levels never get high enough to leak/spill into the bleach tank.

Any other suggestions ?

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Hi Dave,

Regarding the effluent problem, I have a gretag lab but the rep pumps and inlet valves are basically the same.

I have enclose a photo of ours with labels hope this helps.

I am a little concerned you dont run regular process control checks, as this will tell you if you have any rep problems. I would suggest you get some now as you do have issues, especially if you have to tweek the dev rep and drop it occasionally!. Contact other noritsu users for advice on how to use process control tests. If you have a collegue who has paper process control tests and can send you a pack inc. master you can set it up yourself, or even send you process control test to others to read.

Hope this helps

Denis

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GOOD NEWS !  The photos stopped sticking today AND the CD effluent was OK today !!   We had 13 rolls, and we had NO issues !  

I guess replacing the top crossover racks # 4 & 5 took care of the photos sticking.

And for 253 4R prints, the CD effluent amount was 254ml, which is about 27ml OVER what should be expected for this number of prints... which I'm assuming is from the morning "add water" step of the daily setup.... Old monsters never die, but they sure did give me a scare...

Thank you Denis, I'll try to figure out the process control tests.

BTW: we don't ever "tweak" the rep rates... I'll check pump amounts occasionally and if they've changed, check & clean or replace the poppet valves on the pumps to make sure they're good and check pump amounts again, but NEVER change the rep rates.  When I say "Spike" the chemistry, it's usually just manually add some pure color developer, straight from the bottle, into the working tank, because the pump amounts have decreased because of those crappy poppet valves on the pumps.  The 2301 is a great machine for film, but it's use is coming to an end with the prevalence of digital.

THANK YOU ALL WHO RESPONDED...

Dave in LA LA land

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