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low volume film processing.


infocus

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Hi,

We are running a V30 film processor, and are having a heck of a time keeping our chemicals fresh. We are a very low volume film lab, sometimes only 3 or 4 rolls a day...sometimes more, but never in the 20 roll range, as we live in a small town where everyone is switching to digital except a few die-hard film buffs.

Is there any way we can simple top up our chemicals, or do we have to dump the whole tank and add new chemicals every week?

Noritsu doesn't care, and Kodak obviously wants us to buy new chemicals steady.

We found that we can top the CD without problems, but what about the bleach and fixer?

Any suggestions, or should we simple quit film processing?

Thanks, Brad & Tracey

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Hi infocus,

This is now really becoming a problem for almost every lab.

I found in one Kodak document mentioning that tank turnover has to be done at least every 4 weeks (somebody correct me if I am wrong).

Which means fro V30 that you have to use 7.6l off chemistry for period off 4 weeks.

If 7600ml divided by 20ml developer (one 135/24 film), result is 380 films per 4 weeks, which then lead to (divided by 26 working days) about 15 films per day.

So you have to manually put replanisher for at least 10 films (my estimate).

So if you processed two film day before, then beginning the next day press 8 time manual replenishment.

Gretag/SMI film and paper processor has that option inside menu.

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Neil...should we start with maybe changing 1/2 a liter every couple of weeks on each tank and see what that does, or would you know of a formula we could use?

Someone suggesed that we batch process maybe two days a week, but would that keep our chemicals any fresher? We have insurance adjusters that bring in two or three rolls a day, and I don't think trhey'd like to wait three days for their prints.

pskaro,...Definitely going to try your suggestion also. We haven't had to change a replen pack since we opened in October!  We found the manual replenisher option in our "bible" here. Makes real sense to do it that way too.

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My math was maybe little wrong, end up number daily should be for V30 about 15 films, but if you increase chemical rep rates 30% then 11 film per day are OK.

So my ideal solution is to increase rep rate by 30% and doing manual replenishment each morning for the difference between developed film day earlier and 11.

But increasing the replenishment is not sufficent because machine is doing the replenishing only if you are processing the films, but if you do not process any film then no replenishment is done.

So, I would also do manual replenishment as I recommend.

But it is interesting that only Gretag have this option even on old MasterLab ? There is setting for min number of the films which machine have to process, and on the next morning timer film processor is starting the replenishment automatically for the difference, if you set 7 film and day before none was processed, then film processor will put chemistry as you processed 10, but if you processed 11, no chemistry will be added.

Very good idea and I am still amazed that Noritsu or others never done something like that

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There is no manual replishment on the V30...opur book covers the 30, 50 & 100...thought it would be the same, but nope.

We run a control strip every morning, but neither Nortisu nor Kodak will tell us how to set the replen volumes for our low processing volume.

Nick...any idea as to how much we should up the rates by? Right now our rates are:

CD-STB    135= 1.00

              126= 1.49

              110= 0.85

       120/220= 2.25

              240= 0.63

BL-FIX      135= 1.00

               126= 1.00

               110= .046

         120/220= 1.76

               240= 0.72

Right now we are only processing 135 & 240 though...

Thanks,  Brad & Tracey

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You can top up the bleach and fix, with no problems.. Do not top up the bleach with water though... only tank solution.

I could not agree with you as I had experience with process control, more E6 (training for Q-Lab in Chalone, France) but also C-41 and RA-4.

Specific gravity on bleach is increased with evaporation which has effect on D-Max part of the chart, and solarization effect is showing on high ISO film first.

On one location there was problem with this effect and I measured the specific gravity and it was out off the bleach tolerance, and off course D-Max on control strip was out off the tolerance. I started to add water up to specific gravity tolerance for the bleach, in between I done control strip and D-Max was getting better.

When specific gravity reach tolerance limit, D-Max was also in the tolerance.

My field experience is that with bleach specially (because of low rep rate and low utilization) there are a lot off problems, and I recommend everyone to top the bleach with water.

Off course the best way is to test with control strip every day and look for tendencies on the chart, in that way you can tell is your increasing of the development rates OK or you need more.

We have V30 in the office and there is manual replenishment under replenishment/water or something like that, can check in the morning

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We looked in the menu on our machine....in the "repleishment/water" -  "replenishment"...there is no selection for "manual replen..", just total replen, basic replen, replen rates , etc.  we went into each selection as far as we could go, and there is no "manual replenishment" in any of our menu selections...Our User's Manual says it's there, but it is nowhere to be found in the section it says it's in...??????

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Huh, no idea ?

I do not service Noritsu, maybe it is set in some kind off basic mode ?

Try to post a question about that in the Noritsu forum.

But also yours rep rates are strange it looks like they show percentage from some reference value, normally it should show ml/m.

Is your film processor maybe using SM chemistry ?

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Maybe your manuals are for standard C-41RA machine, and not for C-41SM ?

I do not have any experience with SM chemistry or processors (film or paper), but I think that idea about min films per day is the same, not sure I have to check the manuals tomorrow.

Check this also (very new date releases for SM manuals) comparing standard C-41: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/service/Zmanuals/z101.shtml

Regarding increasing the rep rates, I recommend at least 30%

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Its OK, but still there should be manual replenishment option ?

Hope that someone with V30SM will help you with that, or maybe some technician also  ;)

I almost forgot to add that if you do it as  I described (running manual replenishment) then it is better to skip water replenishment when asked after turning off machine in the evening!

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i m specialist of chemistry SM in France ( Kodatel ) hot line and support for customer

with the C41 SM chemistry i'm sorry but we have not issue for the low volume.the Problem with this chemistry is the bleach and fix .

And deppending the replenisher pump size.the noritsu are equiped by two type of pump little and large (most recent machine). 4,5 ml small / 30 ml large pump

When your Processing are low make manual replinishment in bleach and fix,for first time 5 bleach and 5 fix .if the black are bad with little pump 7 manual rep ,large pump 1 manual repl .

Bye         frenchman

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I went into every option in the whole menu and can't find a place to manually replenish... I might be blind, but I can't see it anywhere. Would this option be available on a different software version?

We're running software:

B001 (0051-0) Main.....

B001-JE (0052-1) Display......

(B001-JE) Floppy

Brad

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i have forget one thing very very important ,the part C of the pack change with the time for oxydation every day is nessessary to purge it before start all process

normaly is translucentif, if it is not ,change the pack and the tank because is contamineb by the oxydation and the CD make a bad process ,and the film in the Dmax are not good .for the bleach you can see argentic retention cyan reflection ,it nessessary to make a new bleach or 15 manual repl minimun

bye  frenchman

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Wev'e been running very low volumes of film for quite some time now, with no major problems. I just keep an eye on the control strips, and I have adjusted the rep rates as I have gone along. I started this year with a new tank of dev, but that's the first time I have mixed a new dev tank in over a year. The biggest problem is that the stabiliser needs frequent changing as it gets really dirty.

I was thinking I would stop processing film this year, but every time I think about that I get a bunch of films coming in! Yesterday I had quite a few films, it always amazes me when that happens, (reminds me of the old days).

There is a point where you really do have to ask yourself if it is worth doing films though  :-/.

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the Stab film it's nessessary chane it every two months. have question you known if your machine is ready for the chimistry  Version 2.0/2.1 ?

you can see that in: mode :version

the replenishment is better if you are in the good version,many machine run ever with the V1.0.

For the V series SM V2.X the program version is C001

bye    frenchman

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I'm not sure exactly if it will help or not, may be I'm mistaken something. Anyways, we have 5 V's 100,50,30, and in all of them you can manualy replenish solution. Mode>replenish./refil.water>replenishment>manual replenishment.  Hope this is what you're looking for.  :-/

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