Wet labs vs Dry labs

[Wet Lab]

Can anyone tell me approximately how many wet labs and dry labs are installed / in use in the UK? In Europe? In USA?

Will the assumed migration from wet to dry labs rapid [3 years] or will it take many years as users wait for their installed wet labs to wear out?

Thanks

[Mark Amies]

Whereabouts are you? The Photomaketing Association (PMA) usually have information of this nature, and figures are often brought up in trade/industry magzines like InfoLab ( UK magazine).

Given the amount of advertising and publicity for drylabs currently , this is the main push area for manufacturers, or so it would seem- certainly from FujiFilm and Noritsu, althought of course they are all at it now- PhotoMe, DNP, Mitsubishi, Sony, etc. As far as the industry is concerned , this is the way forward- although from my experience there are a great many wet lab users who are not entirely convinced.

[Wet Lab]

Thanks Mark. I will look at PMA.

I have the chance to take over a wet lab maintenance supplier and need to understand how many years left there will be a volume of wet labs to service. A shrinking industry is OK and attractive [as competitors will exit], but I need to get a better handle on the migration. The stats focus on dry versus minilab sales but don't say much about the number of installed wet labs in USA, Europe and UK.

I have read the interesting 'Is there a long term future for minilabs?' thread. There will be a remaining core market - probably high volume wet labs. Take heart from the Impossible BV project in the Netherlands that has restarted producing Polaroid film.    

[Wet Lab]

I am in based in the centre of the UK but I am interested in European and US market opportunities as well as those closer to home. Hence my interest in the broad installed base of wet labs. I am researching widely but there is real value in the views expressed on this site and all comments are appreciated.  

[philspectrum]

I would have great concirn about "taking over" an unfamiliar business that is in terminal decline, no matter how slow that decline may be.......

Primary issue will be source of spare parts, but if you can afford to buy and warehouse retired labs?

There is a shrinking pool of skilled ex engineers out there who may be your staff, or competition?

Exactly what business might you be buying?

[Mark Amies]

No offence Phil, but your cooments on the business being in 'terminal decline' aren't exactley inspiring. I also note from your website that you closed your buisiness down?.

[cecilh]

Hi Mark, good luck with your venture.  Whether someone thinks business is good, or someone thinks business is bad, they are usually both correct!  There are always opportunities out there - go out and find them!

We're planning on investing in an Apex due to the number of extra product options it will give us.  Furthermore, due to our remote location then having a new for old printer delivered quickly to our door with easy installation is very attractive.  

Cheers

Cecil & Ben

[philspectrum]

Hi mark,

I had no desire to inspire or otherwise. I closed my profitable minilab because I didn't want to sign a fresh 10 year lease, and I saw greater opportunity elsewhere.

The decline is undeniable, the rate is unknown. The original post accepts a declining market......

My comments were mostly about part availability and declning demand.

A friend has just closed his VW beetle garage after 40years, sure there will continue to be demand, but it is only going one way.

[Mark Amies]

Phil

The original post was not mentioning anything about a declining market , in fcat I would assuem the opposite , as the chap is looking to invest his money into the business.

A certain amount of positivity really is needed now, there are plenty out there who are weathering the situation , and presumably doing fine.

Everyone has their own viewpoint on the market and the buisness as a whole, and as my role is in the business of supply I would like to see positivity, and ther eis plenty to be positive about.

[Wet Lab]

Opportunities exist for sure. Just looking around here the commentary on other threads suggests wet labs still have a role to play [high volume minilabs, quality prints, professional market etc] and that manufacturers reflect this by producing both wet & dry minilabs in their ranges.

The big players with substantial overheads are suffering and more nich operators doing OK. [in 2010 Photo-Me-International stated in their accounts for the subsidiary Sales & Servicing – “Wet Minilab sales have declined more than expected and we have taken a write down of £1.2 million on current stock as an exceptional item. We expect the market for these products to continue to decline over the next 12 months”].

Industry forecasts are unanimous in their opinion wet minilabs are being replaced by dry labs [infoTrends in its U.S. Photo Kiosk and Digital Minilab Forecast for 2009 – 2014 – “Dry (chemical-free) minilabs will present the best opportunity for growth in new digital minilab shipments over the next few years. InfoTrends estimates that while just over 80% of digital minilabs sold in 2009 were dry, nearly 100% of new shipments will be dry by 2014 as silver-halide minilabs become a niche product. While silver halide printing is not expected to go away completely, it will be used mainly in extremely high-volume locations for the next few years”].

What no one seems to have a handle on is what % of the current installed base of minilabs are wet and what % are dry? As of 2007 the USA installed minilab base was circa 30,000 in 2007 and Western Europe circa 19,000. Thought?

Nor is there comment on the life expectancy of a minilab. If a digital minilab can reach up to $250,000 USD one assumes they are not being bought just for a couple of years.  

[Mark Amies]

Without a doubtthere will be more wet labs in use of varying ages in the UK. Dry Labs are making in roads, but in no way will they be used in the same numbers.

All the major manufacturers are pushing Dry Labs, based on all the percieved benefits- reduced costs, ease of use, etc.

[Mark Amies]

Interestingly enough, according to FujiFilm UK , ales of DryLabs ( there's anyway) have gone 'through the roof', -

http://www.bpinewsnow.com/media-item.aspx?id=98

I believe the same piece of PR had been put on Minilabhelp, but I couldn't access it.

[philspectrum]

I seem to recall industry figures saying there was an installed base of about 3000 minilabs a few years ago. I also have a vague recollection of hearing that Fuji put out about 300 dry labs last year.

Some wet labs have closed (Inc mine) and others traded for dry.

Does it seem a reasonable guess to imagine maybe 1500 wet labs, and approaching 1000 dry in UK now? The wet labs are likely to be higher volume.

Maybe there is data available on paper use?

Phil

[Mark Amies]

To be honest I would like to think that the PMA would be able to get the figures out. At present all we have to go on are the figures issued by Fuji for effectively their own promotion. Judging by their latest advert in Pixel magazine they claim to be "The UK's No1 Dry Minilab Supplier" , unfortunately they haven't said in the ad where they can substantiate that claim.

[Trevor brown]

It would also be worth knowing where the Labs are being installed,  I know a lot have gone into supermarkets, and going by past record most were loaned or sold at very cheap price's.

Cost or below.

How many independants have taken the plunge.

Tesco's have already taken out 60 wet labs with another 80 in the next few months., this will help us all long term.

[Mark Amies]

Just referring back to Ben and Cecil's comments about the funtionalities of teh Kodak APEX system, these should become fairly standard items on most brands. It is certainly something being considered for the DNP Fotolusio NexLab.

[Mark Amies]

Trevor - those Labs in Tescos - I thought they had all come out some time back? Thye were PhotoMe units weren't they?

Seems Tesco are quite fickle with photo solutions, the kiosks they have in now appear to be HP units - inkjet based.

I would be sceptical about judging the photo retail market in association with supermarkets.

[Wet Lab]

If you assume 3,000 minilabs installed in the UK how would you break this total into segments? [irrespective of wet or dry]

(1) supermarkets x%

(2) photoprocessing chains x%

(3) independent high street operators x%

(4) professional operators x%

(5) ..... x% etc

Can anyone share the £ or $ pricing for a Fuji DL410 and for Fuji LP5500R or LP5700R? Upfront retail cost only rather than forecast total lifetime cost.  

[Mark Amies]

Just out of interest WetLab- have you not actually spoken to any manufacturers or sellers of the equipment yet? Hvae you ever been to either Photokina or Focus on Imaging?

[Mark Amies]

To answer your question I would say that the biggest percentage of machines are probably in photoproessing chains - the likes of Fuji Digital Image Service, Kodak Express, Snappy Snaps, Max Speilman, etc

[Trevor brown]

Hi Mark,

I am not judging our industry on the Supermarkets, just the claims of Manufactures as to how many Dry Labs are out there, and where they are.

Photo-me at one pont had more labs installed in the UK than anyone else but most where in Tesco's where they where sold at a 60% discount to the independant trade price.

I would be amazed if there is more than 300 drylabs installed in the independant sector.

Tesco's are still pulling labs out, Metafix who supply the Chemical Waste Unitsare still servicing approx 100. HP seem to be well in with Tesco's,

though I do know Kodak are trialing some APEX units there

[Mark Amies]

Trevor, seems to me Tescos have the money to burn to pick things up and drop them, like a kid does with new toys.

Of course for some of the manufacturers getting the press publicity of arranging a deal with the UK's biggest retailer is probably worth it's weight in gold.

What about ASDA, Sainsbury's , Morrisons?

[Trevor brown]

Asda'a are apparently haveing more Fuji  Wet Labs installed, which suprised me, Morrisons are going down the Kiosk route

[Mark Amies]

I have to say I am very surprised to hear if ASDA are putting in more wet labs - I would have thought they would be taking them out.  Certainly the big ASDA in Leyton took out the wet labs and then just relied on photo kiosks.

[NeilT]

Hey Wet Lab

I have noticed that you have changed your details since you started to post here at Mini Lab Help.com I am intrested to know who www.scipioconsulting.co.uk is and why Scipio Consulting has an intrest in the Minilab / Photographic sector?