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Old Paper


Photographis
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    It seems that I have been receiving old, or poorly kept paper. My supplier, who knows that my business is relatively new, and is assuming that I know little of the trade, is blaming the yellowing on everything from my rep. rates to the way I buy my chemistry, to my dev. times, to my workload. They, in fact, got quite 'snotty'.

    As most of the forum is aware I am running two Noritsu 2611 base machines, one for negative work, the other a Fastlab contact printer. My last roll of 4" lustre had to be discarded just past 2/3rds used, as the yellowing had become unmanageable. I replaced it with a roll that had been delivered 10/10 (I observe strict stock control), to my dismay this, although usable, was already showing signs of dis-colouring.  Just by chance, my 5" gloss ran out today. This roll had been in the mag. since the 6/7 (I date my magazines as well) and was still giving me perfect whites, from both machines.

So, my question to the forum is quite simple, is anyone else, probably small independant, having trouble with paper suppliers trying to shift dodgy paper, and how do you deal with it/prove it? I have offered to send my setup prints, which clearly show yellowing, but that offer was hastily declined. I hesitate to get nasty, but from the attitude I have encountered so far, I am likely to become quite reactionary.

Any advice ? Listening to floaty, tinkly music doesn't really float my boat, I'm more heavy rock, so please, don't go there.

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A long time ago, we used grey market paper where the color balance of a roll varied from the start to the end of the roll. Basically, we got what we paid for!

We now use paper direct from Kodak, and there are no issues with color balance. Why not try paper from another supplier? Can you find an "approved reseller" who you can get your paper from. You do not say what brand you use, but Kodak and Fuji would have distributors in most countries. Konica paper is now back on the market, but I do not know where you get it from. If you are in the UK, then there is no excuse to be getting lousy product, unless they are a lousy supplier!

Borrow a roll of "good" paper from someone else and do a comparison.

All the above assumes you are running control strips, and that you KNOW your process is in control in both machines, although if a roll went off before it was finished, that tends to indicate a heat issue with the stock (either bad storage or bad transport). Either way, if the service you get is so bad, why keep buying from them. For a little extra, I'm sure you can get good product from a good supplier who will stand by their product and service.

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OK, paper and supplier are not mentioned because this is an ongoing matter. Controll strips are an issue, and now that I have broadened my supply base, I may be able to obtain some (previous queries have been met with ignorance - previous posts on this forum naming this company only confirm their rudeness and lack of customer care).

I can however confirm that this is premium quality paper, with matching chemistry, and within my experiance (although only in the 'trade' for a couple of years, I have been hand deving B&W, C41 and to some degree E6 processes for some 20yrs.) both machines are in controll. I do understand the chemical life within a minilab, or bulk processor, is slightly more complex, therefore I do need educating and am glad of any constructive input.

My storage of paper has been of great concern to me, which is why I strictly control rotation of my stock. I realy need a chiller, but talking to a couple of other labs about this I realise that my storage of paper is not an issue. Storage temperature is monitored, and is between 10/16C. As I post this it is at 12c. In the dark.

  Any one having issues with paper?

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Photographis - If you use Tetenal purchased chemistry, this can be Tetenal own or Kodak, they do a free monitoring service for your control strips. Although as your 5" paper sounds ok it is highly unlikely to be the machine, but with thro put  so up and down on machines it is pretty important to be doing control strips more frequently.

Tetenal also sell the Konica paper (now badges D n P) also Kodak and Fuji

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The brand of control strips will not matter. As already posted up here Tetenal offer a QC service so you will find this a great help. If you can do it in house, all the better, but the skills of understanding "cloth lines" is fast going... Gawd I feel old  :o

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There will still be some old Agfa and Konica in the system that wholesalers are trying to get rid of. I know that when Agfa closed the majority of stock was bought by only a few big traders, then re-exported all 'round the world. You can guarantee that this won't have all have been looked after in transportation - which is probably how the yellowing has occurred.

If one width comes out with a different white than the another you know that the rolls are at fault - not your process. I would find out who else uses paper from that supplier and ask whether they've had the same problem.

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Thank you Neil and Fujilab, I could not understand how if most of my paper is white, and one roll is yellow, it could be my process. I was also told that different batch emulsions will give a different colour, but that is why we ballance each roll of paper, usualy only the once, but in this case I have to ballance it every day, which just can't be correct.

As for reading in house, I have an old Noritsu DM-1, which has been used for setting up the 2611. I presume this would suffice. I have not used this, and know that the settings have been changed, so may well come back to the forum for advice on this monster, as I have no manual, and never having used one in anger...... I know the principle is the same as the other densitometers, but the others are automatic and dedicated. This one you have to do various readings and........ MATHS ! :'( ::)

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I am astounded that you encounter these issues in the UK as oppose to a bananna republic in the tropics !

I can only assume that you are buying through grey / unofficial channels.

In over 20 years Spectrum Imaging have never had any quality issues with Fuji paper bought from an approved supplier - Tudor currently.

OK - there are times when i might be able to buy paper for upto 20% less than the official discounted price, - but a few pence is nothing compared with consistance and customer satisfaction.

There is no excuse for inconsistant paper issues - just change supplier .....

I wouldn't use your paper EVEN IF IT WAS FREE ! - you have plenty enough to manage with a photo lab - don't add paper issues to your list.

Re control strip monitoring - I regard it as essencial - at least once a week, - and most proper suppliers will offer it as a free service. Why not join a chain - Fuji Image service for support on all these matters ?

Phil

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Hi Phil, Thanks for your comments, and I agree.

I have now been waiting since Wednesday for the 'technical Manager' to get back to me on this issue, whenever I call, he isn't in. My patience is exhausted, and my paper and chemistry will be purchased elsewhere.

I have been using Fuji Crystal Archive paper and Fuji chemistry purchased from the Tudor group without incident for the last two years. I am quite willing to accept that mistakes can be made, stock control can go awry etc., but it is the way that mistakes are put right that counts.

I have gone through my remaining stock and discovered that I have a roll of 8" and 4" that are yellowing (both lustre), which were delivered to me on the 10th October. All my other stock is giving me white whites and black blacks. I do not suspect my chemistry, but as I have not been running control strips.......... They are now on order. All I have to do now is calibrate and learn how to use my DM-1, although Tetenal (rep. visiting this week) offer a free service I would like to know immediately if there is a problem.

I would still prefer to remain independent, although the accumulated knowledge of a chain, like the Fuji Image service, is at times very attractive.

I have several 'shoe boxes' to scan, several canvas's to print, and a pretty full diary for the studio, and could well do without the hassle of old paper.

Simon

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the only issues of this nature I have had have been on Kodak Pro papers, that I am now very cautious of. ( i've switched to Fuji Pro)

if its only some rolls that are effected then it has to be the roll itself. The dev will determine your whites and black and cannot change from one paper to another. your supplier should just take it back. no questions asked. obviously send a processed sample of good paper along with the same for the bad paper.

change supplier and put it down to experience.

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