Qss 3312Sm Starter Chemistry

[mike11918]

Hi all. Does anyone know the name or catalog number for the starter chemistry for Noritsu QSS 3312SM? Thanks 

[Minilab service]

Do you have SM chemicals or minilab was modified to use RA-4? If SM which process you use there - RA-2SM or RA-2SM-S . If your process RA-2SM then information about tank chemicals can find :

http://125px.com/docs/chemicals/kodak/z101_01-2007_03.pdf

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/documents/12/0900688a80296012/PF798ENG.pdf

http://www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/About_Kodak_Top/Global_Sustainability/PF798BEng.htm

http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/acrobat/en/service/chemicals/CIS-276.pdf

For example 

Kodak Ektacolor SM (RA-2SM) Tank Developer 8619769 ( 861 9769 )

Kodak Ektacolor SM (RA-2SM) Tank Bleach-Fix 8915753 ( 891 5753 )

Kodak Ektacolor SM (RA-2SM) Tank Stabilizer   8729956 ( 872 9956 )

Edited June 27, 2014 by Minilab service

[Big Dave]

Mike, don't waste your money on the SM starter kits from Kodak.

When we had a 2301SM, we were dumping and starting fresh with regular RA chemistry,

and the SM chems would just replenish "on-top" of it with no issues.

 

An "old-timer" taught me this when I first took over the business and we tried it, and it's been great.

 

We don't have our 2301SM anymore, but we still have a V50SM film processor and we do the same with it.

 

I've been picking up old chemistry from labs that have closed and just use their old stuff, so we haven't bought any starter or other chems in a while for mixing new batches of working tank solution.  We still buy brand new chems for our replenishment tanks though.

When we run out, then we'll buy more, but until then, I've got lots.

 

We also make sure to mix about 10-15% stronger than recommended on the box based on age of the chems, and it's been fine.

BUT I am NOT a chemical expert.... I just guess a lot, and LUCKILY haven't had anything blow up in my face yet !

 

BTW, Whatever you do, DO NOT mix household Bleach with CD or STB (can't remember which) when cleaning your racks.... it's bad.

[mike11918]

Thank you so much. Appreciate the info. Going to do it your way Dave

[Big Dave]

Hey Mike, I still want to come by and visit your shop !

[mike11918]

I have been having problems with the color of the prints. I keep having to repeat emulsion number change every hour or so. Colors just keep shifting. After I correct colors with emulsion number change, prints come out fine for a while. Few hours later when I go to print again, colors don't look right and I have to do emulsion number change again. Initially, I figured my chemistry was bad so I dumped all the chemistry that was in the machine and put fresh starter chemistry. The problem still occurs. Any ideas?

[Big Dave]

I am not a chemical expert, so...

 

Did one of your employees fill any of the replenisher tanks with the wrong chemistry ???

Our old store manager did this once, but let me know as soon as she finished mixing the rep tank, so we didn't have any contamination of the working tanks, but we did have to dump an entire 10L mix of replenisher.

 

On another note, check your pump outputs.  When was the last time you checked/cleaned your in-line filters ?

If your pumps aren't pumping enough fresh chems into the working tank, your colors can go wonky like this.  Check your pump outputs, and if they're not close to what your pump output amount settings are, then check/replace your poppet valves on your replenishment pumps, then check the pump outputs again.   Then depending on which pump is having problems, add some fresh replenisher into the working tanks that had the problem poppet valves, and your colors should be better.  Your chemistry probably won't be "100% balanced" but it'll be a lot better.  Run some control strips and re-balance your chems afterwards depending on your plots, if you are so inclined, but I have no idea how to do this....

[mike11918]

No, I refilled the starter chemistry myself. As for the replenished tanks, it's sm chemistry so there isn't really a way to mix the chemicals up-the box simply cannot be put in incorrectly. Filters all changed with the start up chemistry. Didn't check pump outputs although I should. The issue/question I am having is why I keep having to do emulsion number change. I just put fresh starter chemistry and have not even printed enough to have the pumps replenish much so emulsion could not have changed because of replenishment or lack thereof. Just driving me crazy having to do emulsion change after every batch I prints doesn't make sense.

[Dave S]

When you do the emulsion no. change what are the typical Y M C D correction values?

 

Is it shifting between opposite colours? (Normally indicates an AOM driver problem)

 

Check things like the float switches in the sub tanks are not stuck, if they get stuck in the down position the machine will keep wanting to add water which will obviously start to dilute the chemistry. Though generally if this is the problem you will tend to get water refilling errors.

 

You really need to determine if the problem is chemistry related or not, the easiest way to do this is to process and read some paper control strips, this will tell you exactly what is happening chemistry wise, if the readings are stable, the problem will be elsewhere.

[Minilab service]

If you have problems with chemicals to see quality the best would be run control strips and look do you see any changes.

Also check do you selected correct chemical process in machine specification menu. Can change when minilab is in service mode.

Then check replenishment rates and temperatures. Also make pump output amount setting - measurement for all pumps, correction setting, thermosensor calibration, refilling water amount setting, cleaning water amount setting, drive motor revolution count auto adjustment:

Color drift can cause printer. Run laser diagnostic and write minimal percents for RGB. When see color changes run diagnostic again and compare results. Can be you have changes not in processor, but in AOM driver.

[mike11918]

I do think that it is an AOM issue. I have to do at least 3 emulsion number changes before machine can accept values. Even when it accepts values, I do another emulsion number change just because and it will measure with unacceptable and repeat the process. 

[mike11918]

And, yes, the colors do shift between opposite colors. Shifts between yellow and magenta. Could this be the AOM driver and/or the AOM crystal? 

[Dave S]

Yellow and Magenta are not opposite colours!

Yellow - Blue
Magenta - Green
Cyan - Red

It may be you have more than 1 AOM driver playing up.
You can try swapping the Red AOM driver with the Blue AOM driver and see if the colour change is now different.

[mike11918]

What I meant to say is that prints will print fine for a few batches an suddenly go very yellow. Or sometimes go very purple.

[Dave S]

It's probably blue rather than purple!! I'm not being funny with you just being accurate, as it's the only way to properly diagnose.

 

It's probably the Blue AOM driver that is giving you problems. Try swapping it with the Red one, if the prints now go between Red and Cyan this will confirm the problem was with the Blue AOM (now switched to the Red).

[mike11918]

Well, I think I'd better leave that to a technician. I don't want to end up messing something up as I have no experience removing the AOM. 

[Minilab service]

It is very easy to switch AOM drivers on QSS3312. I'm sure you can do it yourself.

[mike11918]

Noritsu Tech was here today with an AOM. He ran Laser Test and 'B' faulted at 40%. He is sure that the laser has gone bad. Can the color shifting problems I am having be laser related? I am not have the most faith in Noritsu as of late. 

[mike11918]

I also asked tech what type of laser I have and he said that the 3312 does not have different types of lasers. I had always believe that there were at least a Type A and a Type B. Am I incorrect?

[Minilab service]

Your engineer is wrong. QSS3312SM may have A1, B1 and Ff laser unit. Go to software version check menu. You see laser type on laser line there. 

I responded your email, so check all and give information I asked there.

[Dave S]

Yes I agree with Minilab service.

If he’s talking about a 40% value in the laser test software, this is actually a nice high value for the Blue laser. The Blue value is always much higher compared to the Green and Red value. But this test cannot fully determine if a laser is good or not, it’s more helpful for determining the condition of the AOM drivers.

A bad laser can cause colour shifting problems, but you also tent to get other problems like coloured lines/ noise on the prints as well.

Did he try changing/ swapping the AOM drivers?

[mike11918]

He did swap the AOM and the "B" faulted at 40% again. "R" and "G" did not error.

[Dave S]

Firstly 40% is not a problem, I don’t know why he is worried about a 40% value. New Blue lasers often are not as good as 40%. 85-100% I would consider to be a problem for the Blue laser.
For colour shifting problems like this the Laser test software is not very effective, the chances of you catching it in the fault condition are very slim.
If he reads the manual for the Laser self-diagnosis software it even states this. See attached.

A new Blue AOM driver needs to be fitted, then run the machine and see if the problem has gone or not.

[mike11918]

Thank you for your replay Dave S. I am going to read up on that manual you provided and perhaps request a different engineer. I ,too, feel that the problem is not with the laser, but I do not know very much. I  need to get an AOM as well.

[mike11918]

In his report, Technician indicated that it is not AOM problem but a problem with the B laser because he swapped the B AOM with G AOM and after daily setup ran laser diagnostic which failed with abnormality of B laser syncro @ 40%.  Maybe I am not understanding him correctly?