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Noritsu 430 Power Issues - USA vs Australia


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In May of 2020 I purchased a Noritsu 430 Film Processor from Adam at International Photo Machines in Florida.

Finally arrived in September.

Finding an electrician to connect power to it has been difficult

This 430 machine has been setup to use two lines of 110v (USA)

Now nearing end of March 2021

The supplier says the answer should be as easy as buying two 240v to 110v step down transformers for $20

And simply plug them in?? 

At the same time he suggests that the machine requires 13amps??

Even the local electronics store says a transformer to deal with 13amps would be huge

Does anyone know if 13amps sounds like too much for a 430 to draw..

 

I would love for it to be a simple 20 dollar fix, but at the same time I dont want to blow anything up!

Cheers, Graeme

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As above. You should already have the gear which is a double sprocket, small and large diameter. Just remove and reverse.....simple as that from memory. 

Definitely NO TRANSFORMER REQUIRED.  The QSF4xxx series is wired for international installation compatibility. My  advice  would be to go the 3Phase path.  Irrespective,  you need to reconfigure the input with relevant straps and links on the power boards and terminal blocks  to use out here on 240V single phase 3 wire. AND a 15Amps power bus and (3 phase style) connector from the  Switch Board. Gets a bit technical, there are a few other changes which have to made which ever way you choose.

I have the manuals for all QSF 4xxx on  ZIP file which includes the wiring. About 52Mb I can send you a link to my Cloud Drive.

P.S. I'm in Sydney.......Ex Noritsu/Kodak tech, and sorry mate,  but have been away from the field too long to assist or advise technically on your predicament. 

Edited by photocorp
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Minilab Service :

Sorry exact the Model is Unknown?

The unit arrived with no identifying stickers or logos.

I was only told that it was a 430 the predecessor to the V30.

Would there be any other way of determining the model other than labels?

---

Photocorp : Thank you... I will share this with my electrician to see if he understand any of it...

The manual would be very much appreciated, but of course first we need to know the model...

Cheers,

G.

 

6FD858F3-4A2A-4423-854D-FAA80EC7C6A1.jpg

20201202_160912.jpg

DF594143-8F64-4F77-8F0E-DEC326514604(1).jpg

F33D5B25-1863-40D4-9AC8-252677696CA4(1).jpg

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Minilab Service :

 

The unit arrived along with these installation specifications, but no manuals

QSF-430L-3 (U)

?

---

Photocorp :

Thank you... I will share this with my electrician to see if he understand any of it...

If you have a manual for the QSF-430L-3 (U) a copy would be very much appreciated

Cheers,

G.

 

430 specifications - page 1.jpg

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Manuals are the same, for all QSF-430 range film processors. Film processor should have small metal label with model, serial number, production date and some other information. Model also should be written on side cover. Do not understand, why someone removed them.

Can be many models. For example Q S F - 4 3 0 L, Q S F - 4 3 0 L - 3, QSF–430L–3U, Q S F-4 3 0 L-3 E . When film processor is from Japan, or USA then might be need to add transformer, but not for all film processor ( only for part of circuit ) . Try to find model label. Maybe it is painted and you do not see it. Look do you have transformer TR2 inside your film processor ( between terminal 4and terminal 3 ) .

As I wrote before you need change one gear position ( because different frequency ) . It is because in USA is 60 hz and Australia - 50 hz. Only when changed position have correct processor speed.

Edited by Minilab service
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i see here is model QSF–430L–3U ( USA model ) . Transformer J801455 is TR1. It is on all models. Transformer unit TR2 ( round not adjustable autotransformer p.n. W401592 ) should be on the bottom.  Do not see it not on your film processor. You need to add it ( 100 V output ) .  Transformer shouldn't be very powerful. I usually used round not adjustable autotransformer ( where primary connected with secondary )
step-down-600x600-300x300.jpg

Here how it should installed :
 

430 transformer.jpg

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Graeme, hi.

 

Here's the link to the  QSF 430L - (U). 430 Manual  enjoy.

These were scanned to pdf  by Kodak  in Melbourne  around Y2000,  before Noritsu started to provide e-manuals on CD.

This is the 20Amp single phase 240Volts connector style most Noritsu QSF's were installed with our here.

Greg.

240V - 20Amps.jpeg

Edited by photocorp
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On 3/29/2021 at 2:24 AM, Graeme said:

In May of 2020 I purchased a Noritsu 430 Film Processor from Adam at International Photo Machines in Florida.

Finally arrived in September.

Finding an electrician to connect power to it has been difficult

This 430 machine has been setup to use two lines of 110v (USA)

Now nearing end of March 2021

The supplier says the answer should be as easy as buying two 240v to 110v step down transformers for $20

And simply plug them in?? 

At the same time he suggests that the machine requires 13amps??

Even the local electronics store says a transformer to deal with 13amps would be huge

Does anyone know if 13amps sounds like too much for a 430 to draw..

 

I would love for it to be a simple 20 dollar fix, but at the same time I dont want to blow anything up!

Cheers, Graeme

 

16 hours ago, photocorp said:

As above. You should already have the gear which is a double sprocket, small and large diameter. Just remove and reverse.....simple as that from memory. 

Definitely NO TRANSFORMER REQUIRED.  The QSF4xxx series is wired for international installation compatibility. My  advice  would be to go the 3Phase path.  Irrespective,  you need to reconfigure the input with relevant straps and links on the power boards and terminal blocks  to use out here on 240V single phase 3 wire. AND a 15Amps power bus and (3 phase style) connector from the  Switch Board. Gets a bit technical, there are a few other changes which have to made which ever way you choose.

I have the manuals for all QSF 4xxx on  ZIP file which includes the wiring. About 52Mb I can send you a link to my Cloud Drive.

P.S. I'm in Sydney.......Ex Noritsu/Kodak tech, and sorry mate,  but have been away from the field too long to assist or advise technically on your predicament. 

The above advice is incorrect, you Definitely need a 100V transformer (TR2) for the 430L-3 (U) in a 230/240V country, without it, it will go bang!

The output of the transformer connects to the black and white wires that go to the noise filter input, (marked V & U in the manual) See page 81 in the linked manual.

The wiring diagram is on page 138 of the manual that photocorp kindly linked 430 Manual The dryer heater wiring will also need to be changed from 100V to 230/240V specification, also shown on page 138.

Looking at your photo Single Phase 2 wires (1 Phase 2 wires) would be the easiest option as your machine doesn't have the terminal 2 block.

R on the diagram is the thick Red wire. S on the diagram is the thick Black wire. The breaker switch will need to be re-wired on your machine as shown on the wiring diagram.

The machine requires a 20A supply when connected as 240V single phase.

Edited by Dave S
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photocorp didn't connect transformer, because film processor was for Australian market, so TR2 already was there. On USA model it is missing ( because in USA, Japan and some other countries doesn't need it ) . When I in Europe had connect older minilabs and film processors from Japan ( models for Japanese market ) I always had to add transformer.

If USA film processor model connect to 230 V directly then will be very big bang. First will be burned transformer TR1 ( it has 100 - 120 V input ) . Also burn fans, replenishment pumps, SSR, varistors and some other parts.

Original auto transformer has many inputs ( for 200V, 220V, 230V and 240V ) and one output ( 100V ) . I used auto transformer with one input, one output and one common wire. Output can be 100 - 120 V . Can use take auto transformer with three wires ( similar as on my picture ) , connect two wires to mains and with multimeter look output voltages ( pin 1 - pin 2 and pin 2 - pin 3 ) . Use wire voltage, where you have correct voltage. Common wire can be 1, or 3 ( A or B on picture ) .

Do not need auto transformer with very high power. Do not remember exact power, but TR2 output is connected to 2 fuses - F7 ( 1A ) and F9 ( 5A ) . So totally maximal possible current  - 6A . I think really it will be about 3-4 A , so auto transformer power 300 - 400 W should be enough.

What-is-an-Autotransformer.png

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People need to be careful before they make a statement like “Definitely NO TRANSFORMER REQUIRED

If the OP had followed the above advice he would have destroyed his machine, so I felt it was very important to correct the bad advice.

It is always best to look into something thoroughly before making assumptions and giving out bad advice.

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5 hours ago, Dave S said:

People need to be careful before they make a statement like “Definitely NO TRANSFORMER REQUIRED

If the OP had followed the above advice he would have destroyed his machine, so I felt it was very important to correct the bad advice.

It is always best to look into something thoroughly before making assumptions and giving out bad advice.

 

6 hours ago, Minilab service said:

Photocorp didn't connect transformer, because film processor was for Australian market, so TR2 already was there. On USA model it is missing ( because in USA, Japan and some other countries doesn't need it ) . When I in Europe had connect older minilabs and film processors from Japan ( models for Japanese market ) I always had to add transformer.

Apologies to Graeme if I've  erred in my advise.

Still need to connect power input as 1P3W with appropriate 20Amp plugs

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1P3W connection is for USA ( where missing TR2 ) If connect this way in Australia  - film processor will be destroyed.

On your picture - 3 pin plug ( live, neutral, ground ) . It is for 1P2W circuit. Need add TR2, use three pin plug and connect film processor using 1P2W circuit.

Look diagram, which you uploaded. All clear there. In Australia can use any circuit except 1P3W.

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Why to post so long link? It is enough https://www.digikey.com.au/product-detail/en/triad-magnetics/VPT230-430/237-1338-ND

As I told before to transformer connected two fuses - F7 ( 1A ) and F9 ( 5A ) . So totally maximal possible current  - 6A .  I think really it will be about 3-4 A , so auto transformer power 300 - 400 W should be enough. 

On your link VPT230-430, Power - Max 100 VA, current - output (Max) 860mA. Need use some more powerful model. This model power will not be enough for TR1, which is connected to TR2 through 5 A fuse.

Can use some more powerful model https://www.digikey.com.au/en/product-highlight/t/triad-magnetics/triad-vpt-series
By the way - here are transformers ( primary not connected to secondary ) . Your choice how connect them. Can be connected only to primary coil ( in the middle will be 115V ) and it would be auto transformer. Also input can be connected to primary and output to secondary. Then it will be used as transformer ( where primary and secondary are separated ) .
 

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No idea why that link became soo long... all I copied was one similar to yours...

Thanks, yes I was just rereading your part about transformer connected two fuses... when your latest reply arrived..

I could not see any reference to 300 - 400w on that listing I posted so had no idea what to look for...

Thanks for the clarification

Being a photo guy of 40+ years starting out in processing (1980 - 7 hr!) unfortunately electrics and electronics is not my specialty!!

I can only hope my electrician can make sense of it all, otherwise I will need to search for someone who does

Thanks to one and all for your contributions...

 

At least I avoided going down to wrong path which the supplier had suggested...

(Just stop crying and plug in the two transformers and you will have your machine)

It was that attitude that brought me here seeking any kind of confirmation to the contrary

Thank you, thank you, thank you..!!

Cheers,

Graeme

 

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Already wrote twice. Why third time have write the same?

As I told before to transformer connected two fuses - F7 ( 1A ) and F9 ( 5A ) . So totally maximal possible current  - 6A .  Maximal possible power with these fuses would be 600 VA ( 100 V x 6 A ) .
Fuse rates always are higher, than real current. Real current will be lower. I think really it will be about 3-4 A , so transformer power 300 - 400 W should be enough. 

To TR2 are connected :
TR1 transformer input ( it has 100 V primary )
Drive motor
Fans ( they are 100 V a.c ) 

Relays
Replenishment pups
Few other parts. All can see on diagram. 

Find some powerful transformer with 100 - 120 V output, or auto transformer, which can be with fixed, or adjustable output. Connect it to film processor and using multi-meter you can measure output current. Then you can calculate real power ( P=U x I ) . Ask electrician and he help to do it.

250 VA might be enough, but might not. 500 VA is more than need ( almost reach maximum possible power for 5A + 1A fuses ) .  

Not necessary to buy expensive transformer from USA ( Digikey ) . I'm sure, that similar transformer ( or auto transformer ) can be bought locally. Can be any powerful transformer, which has primary with 230 V and 115 ( 100 - 120 V ) inputs. Secondary output voltage is not important. Film processor can connect to primary middle point ( there will be about 115 V ) .

Original auto transformer TR2 has Noritsu part number W401592 or J801428 . They still available, but price very high ( 400 - 450 USD ) . 

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11 hours ago, photocorp said:

 

Apologies to Graeme if I've  erred in my advise.

Still need to connect power input as 1P3W with appropriate 20Amp plugs

I despair!

It needs to be connected as 1P2W not 1P3W

I mean no disrespect to you, when we are dealing with electricity and different voltages the information given out needs to be 100% accurate.

Edited by Dave S
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Firstly my electrician is not technician so please bare with us...

Powering up the New Transformer

1/. Do we need to connect the 100V from the new TR2 the the circuit breaker on the side or straight to TR1?

If connecting to TR1 where are the terminals

2/. The 240 live and neutral coming from the terminal block the the contactors X11 and X12, does anything else have to change to 240V inside the machine

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