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QSS 3300 daily setup and emulsion number change problem


tolyaasch
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Hey guys!

I have a new problem with our minilab. After daily setup if I make emulsion number change test, it not depends on paper, the test is already repeated many times (2-3 times / test),
but overall key difference is often not more than 0,1 - 0,3. If I try to find something wierd in numbers than I can figure some differences in last 3 lines (the darker ones) when the Y channel is about 1,99 and the M or C channels are somewhere between 2,10 - 2,25 

We use same type of papers (Fuji Crystal Archieve) and same chemistry (Tetenal) in our another minilabs (e.g. QSS 3501P) and this problem does not occur (the machine is not repeating emulsion number change test).

The second problem is, the company (Veritek Czechia) we buying spare parts slowly stopping delivering parts for QSS machines. Now I have a problem to buy inking ribbon (for correction values print), last I bought from Veritek was bad and last for 2-3 weeks.

Please help me to figure out where a problem is (the calibration plate we use is not the plastic one), the densitometer is cleaned, the chemistry is new, replenishment is measured and working well.

Thank you.

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The correction value it gives you is only for one step (I think it is step 7) so if the other steps are out by a certain amount it will ask you to do it again. Sometimes the cause is the current set up data is too far away from when the machine was originally set up.

I would try doing the paper registration setup and magazine registration setup again from scratch.

I tend to use the Crystal Archive Type II profile as the Crystal Archive one is an old profile.

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4 hours ago, Dave S said:

The correction value it gives you is only for one step (I think it is step 7) so if the other steps are out by a certain amount it will ask you to do it again. Sometimes the cause is the current set up data is too far away from when the machine was originally set up.

I would try doing the paper registration setup and magazine registration setup again from scratch.

I tend to use the Crystal Archive Type II profile as the Crystal Archive one is an old profile.

The paper and magazine registration setup was made last week with freshly started chemistry. I try to find the floppy for calibration plate that was changed in our 3502 some years ago and try to use that plate in 3300 but i´m afraid that the problem is in colorimeter unit :( or in worst case somewhere else 

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1 hour ago, tolyaasch said:

 I try to find the floppy for calibration plate that was changed in our 3502 some years ago and try to use that plate in 3300 but i´m afraid that the problem is in colorimeter unit :( or in worst case somewhere else 

You don't have to do this - this will ruin the colorimeter settings.
Upload a screenshot of the colorimeter readings here.

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What you need to do then is write the correction values down on the back of the test print, then keep the all the set up prints and see if you can a particular pattern. For example are the prints drifting to one particular colour, are the readings consistent with the actual print.

On the colorimeter unit check that the pressure solenoid is operating properly to clamp the print when it is reading, as this can cause bad readings.

The colorimeter head is the same between the 35 and the 33 series, so you could swap that as a test to determine if the head is the problem or not.

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On 9/10/2021 at 12:45 PM, kodak_service said:

You don't have to do this - this will ruin the colorimeter settings.
Upload a screenshot of the colorimeter readings here.

Daily setups last 7 days

On friday the emulsion test on 203 and 178 mm papers was retested by the minilab 3 times.

Today all emulsion number change tests were passed on first attempt.

I don´t understand

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You have problems with chemistry or a mistake in choosing a profile . The step between adjacent steps (starting from the second) should be about 10 points, and your step between steps 2-4 is very small, so the machine does a lot of tests.
First, you need to setup minilab for profile 117. If this does not change the situation, check the chemistry. 

The colorimeter cannot be causing the problem, do not touch it.

 

 

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14 hours ago, kodak_service said:

You have problems with chemistry or a mistake in choosing a profile . The step between adjacent steps (starting from the second) should be about 10 points, and your step between steps 2-4 is very small, so the machine does a lot of tests.
First, you need to setup minilab for profile 117. If this does not change the situation, check the chemistry. 

The colorimeter cannot be causing the problem, do not touch it.

 

 

Do you mean profile 117 as paper type? The chemistry is freshly started tetenal i think it might be good.

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You cannot compare the readings of a colorimeter between 3300 and 3501Plus - their software works differently and builds tests on different curves.
At 3501Plus, the difference between 2 and 3 steps is usually less than at 3300, and you have the opposite.
The date of preparation of the chemistry does not guarantee the quality of the solution, because it changes as the minilab runs. You cannot determine the quality of chemistry with your eyes.

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1 hour ago, kodak_service said:

You cannot compare the readings of a colorimeter between 3300 and 3501Plus - their software works differently and builds tests on different curves.
At 3501Plus, the difference between 2 and 3 steps is usually less than at 3300, and you have the opposite.
The date of preparation of the chemistry does not guarantee the quality of the solution, because it changes as the minilab runs. You cannot determine the quality of chemistry with your eyes.

Yes, it´s true but I measured the pumps and they works well, the regeneration amount is set as in the chemistry manual and girls are preparing the chemistry consistently, the machines are running almost same amount of squaremeter of paper, long story short, they do the same thing. But i make a re-check of regeneration pumps again for sure.

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Hey guys, today I made pump output measurement and all pumps work well (measurement in menu set to 59 ml - real measured amount is somewhere between 63-66 ml on CD and BF chemistry).

I grabbed the setup strips from 3501P and the 3300-which have the problems and the whiteness of paper looks the same (i could not see color cast or veil on white parts of paper)

Next week I try to reinitialize the 3300 to the mentioned paper type and reregister the magazines

If someone have idea what else to do please don´t hesitate to tell me :)
Thank you!

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43 minutes ago, tolyaasch said:

Hey guys, today I made pump output measurement and all pumps work well (measurement in menu set to 59 ml - real measured amount is somewhere between 63-66 ml on CD and BF chemistry).

I grabbed the setup strips from 3501P and the 3300-which have the problems and the whiteness of paper looks the same (i could not see color cast or veil on white parts of paper)

Next week I try to reinitialize the 3300 to the mentioned paper type and reregister the magazines

If someone have idea what else to do please don´t hesitate to tell me :)
Thank you!

I think that you are calibrating the pumps incorrectly - the pump cannot make more than 60 ml in the test.

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51 minutes ago, tolyaasch said:

Sorry for probably silly question: how can I calibrate it?

Menu → Extension → Processor Settings → Pump Output Amount Setting

Measure each pump 3 times, add the readings together and divide by 3 to give an average reading, enter this value into the machine.

The standard value is normally 51ml for the CD and BF, the actual reading tends to be a bit higher, something like 53-56ml

Pump output setting.pdf

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16 hours ago, kodak_service said:

In the last post you wrote 63-66 ml, so I was very surprised.
If the actual measurement is less than 57 ml, this means that the valves in the pump are unstable. It is necessary to remove and rinse them. If after this the result does not increase to 58-59 ml, then the valves must be changed.

Yesterday I bought medical measuring glass (I had just that from kitchen one), and made 3 time exact measurement and here are my measured values:

CD: 55,5 / 57,5 / 57,5

BF: 57,5 / 60 / 59

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2 hours ago, tolyaasch said:

Yesterday I bought medical measuring glass (I had just that from kitchen one), and made 3 time exact measurement and here are my measured values:

CD: 55,5 / 57,5 / 57,5

BF: 57,5 / 60 / 59

So the average value is CD 56.8 and BF 58.8

Check your replenisher rates (mL/m) are correct for the type of chemistry you are using. 

Ideally you want to be using a chemistry with a medium to high rep rate for the 3300 as it's a low throughput machine.

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1 hour ago, Dave S said:

So the average value is CD 56.8 and BF 58.8

Check your replenisher rates (mL/m) are correct for the type of chemistry you are using. 

Ideally you want to be using a chemistry with a medium to high rep rate for the 3300 as it's a low throughput machine.

The user manual for Tetenal chemistry is the same as for Kodak (54 ml / 80 ml per square)

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