Lumentation Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Hi everyone, It's us again...We have a new problem. Our HS1800 is cutting frames in half when they're saved to the storage media. It seems to happen way more often with black/white film than with color film. The images always look correct on the judgement display, but when they save to our computer and then you try to open them, they look like the scans below. We've tried adjusting the LED light intensity, calibrating the scanner, and completing the scan position auto correction -- but we still get the split frames. Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? Thanks always. https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1hiINnwgpUhGfFmvOZIUAc771cqWlR2oX?usp=sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Which Film carrier is this happening on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumentation Posted February 16 Author Report Share Posted February 16 49 minutes ago, Dave S said: Which Film carrier is this happening on? Just the 135AFC II so far Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 If the main scan is not matching the preview scan there must be some slippage going on somewhere, either the rollers are bad, or the drive belts are worn/ slack. Using the Forced Stop Position mode (under the Scan condition Tab) should help to resolve the issue as it will scan exactly as you position it, but it’s more time consuming as you need to check every frame is aligned. You align the frame then press N enter, then press yes when you get to the end of the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumentation Posted February 16 Author Report Share Posted February 16 12 minutes ago, Dave S said: If the main scan is not matching the preview scan there must be some slippage going on somewhere, either the rollers are bad, or the drive belts are worn/ slack. Using the Forced Stop Position mode (under the Scan condition Tab) should help to resolve the issue as it will scan exactly as you position it, but it’s more time consuming as you need to check every frame is aligned. You align the frame then press N enter, then press yes when you get to the end of the film. We have been using the Forced Stop Position mode as well and it still happens. We don't see any obvious signs that the drive belts aren't working properly. How can we check to make sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted February 16 Report Share Posted February 16 Take the cover off the drive motor (square cover back right) and check the drive belt is not slack, check the teeth on the belt/ drive motor pulley are not worn. Are the rollers original Noritsu rollers? As copy rollers can slip on the shaft, try holding each roller while turning the brass wheel on the back of the drive motor, make sure they don't slip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumentation Posted February 16 Author Report Share Posted February 16 20 minutes ago, Dave S said: Take the cover off the drive motor (square cover back right) and check the drive belt is not slack, check the teeth on the belt/ drive motor pulley are not worn. Are the rollers original Noritsu rollers? As copy rollers can slip on the shaft, try holding each roller while turning the brass wheel on the back of the drive motor, make sure they don't slip. They don't seem to be worn or slipping. Can't tell if they're original noritsu, we bought the scanner and carrier used. I manually turned the drive motor and all the rollers seemed to move together without slipping. Also, this problem doesn't seem to happen when we scan color film. Could it be a software or print channel issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 13 hours ago, Lumentation said: They don't seem to be worn or slipping. Can't tell if they're original noritsu, we bought the scanner and carrier used. I manually turned the drive motor and all the rollers seemed to move together without slipping. Also, this problem doesn't seem to happen when we scan color film. Could it be a software or print channel issue? No it's not going to be a software or print channel issue. The problem is most likely a hardware issue with something in the film carrier. B/W film tends to be a bit thicker than colour film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumentation Posted February 17 Author Report Share Posted February 17 Interesting. I've discovered that if we complete the scanner calibration and use the force stop check between each roll we scan, it usually works. But this is obviously very time consuming. I'll try to take a closer look at the drive motors and belts and see if anything comes up. I'll post photos shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted February 17 Report Share Posted February 17 It may just be the rest you are giving the film carrier while doing the scanner calibration that is making the difference, rather than the actual scanner calibration! I guess you could test that theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodak_service Posted February 18 Report Share Posted February 18 Belts, pulleys and motor cannot be the cause of this problem. It all depends on the quality of the polyurethane rollers. First of all, these are the rollers around the scanning slot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumentation Posted February 22 Author Report Share Posted February 22 On 2/17/2023 at 2:41 PM, Dave S said: It may just be the rest you are giving the film carrier while doing the scanner calibration that is making the difference, rather than the actual scanner calibration! I guess you could test that theory. If it actually is the rollers/belts that are worn out, what's the best option? Could we order those parts and fix it ourselves or would we have to have the film carrier serviced/buy a new one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minilab service Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 Film carrier can be refurbished. If to change rollers, sensors, adjust everything and after that film carrier works perfectly. I repaired many of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted February 22 Report Share Posted February 22 5 hours ago, Lumentation said: If it actually is the rollers/belts that are worn out, what's the best option? Could we order those parts and fix it ourselves or would we have to have the film carrier serviced/buy a new one? Any of the worn out parts can be ordered from Noritsu. As to whether you can fix it yourself I don’t know, it depends on your abilities. It’s not super hard to do, but it does have to be stripped down completely to replace the rollers, lots of care has to be taken to do it properly and not damage anything. I can recommend Minilab service above, he’s an expert at repairing these carriers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumentation Posted March 1 Author Report Share Posted March 1 On 2/22/2023 at 6:25 PM, Dave S said: Any of the worn out parts can be ordered from Noritsu. As to whether you can fix it yourself I don’t know, it depends on your abilities. It’s not super hard to do, but it does have to be stripped down completely to replace the rollers, lots of care has to be taken to do it properly and not damage anything. I can recommend Minilab service above, he’s an expert at repairing these carriers. Thanks for this! I'll look into sending it to @Minilab service for repair...only worried about the turnaround time. Can't close our lab for very long since we wouldn't be able to scan film. If it's straight forward enough to replace the parts myself, I might look into that as well. Just don't know which parts I'd need. Do you have a list of parts or part numbers handy? @Minilab service How much do you charge for refurbishing film carriers? How long do you think it would take? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted March 1 Report Share Posted March 1 The relevant parts list for the 135AFC-II is below 135AFC-II.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumentation Posted March 1 Author Report Share Posted March 1 1 hour ago, Dave S said: The relevant parts list for the 135AFC-II is below 135AFC-II.pdf 346.59 kB · 0 downloads Thanks for this! I'll look into it, though I'm still not entirely convinced it's a drive belt issue...I've tried a different strategy and noticed that if I run the Sensor LED Light Intensity Value Adjustment between each roll I scan, the frames do not get cut in half. Maybe something is wrong with the Sensor LEDs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted March 2 Report Share Posted March 2 19 hours ago, Lumentation said: Thanks for this! I'll look into it, though I'm still not entirely convinced it's a drive belt issue...I've tried a different strategy and noticed that if I run the Sensor LED Light Intensity Value Adjustment between each roll I scan, the frames do not get cut in half. Maybe something is wrong with the Sensor LEDs? It could possibly be the perforation sensor miss detecting, though I would expect it to give the film has stopped errors if that was the case. It’s more likely the motor spinning reset it does after the sensor calibration rather than the actual sensor calibration. In most cases like this the issue is the rubber rollers slipping on the drive shafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumentation Posted March 5 Author Report Share Posted March 5 On 3/2/2023 at 12:52 PM, Dave S said: It could possibly be the perforation sensor miss detecting, though I would expect it to give the film has stopped errors if that was the case. It’s more likely the motor spinning reset it does after the sensor calibration rather than the actual sensor calibration. In most cases like this the issue is the rubber rollers slipping on the drive shafts. Wait a moment...we have also been getting film stopped errors pretty often as well. They usually coincide with the split frames. How can we test/check the perforation sensors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodak_service Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 3 hours ago, Lumentation said: Wait a moment...we have also been getting film stopped errors pretty often as well. They usually coincide with the split frames. How can we test/check the perforation sensors? You do not have a problem with the perforation sensor. This sensor checks the uniformity of film movement. Your AFC has a mechanical problem during film advance due to a perforation sensor error message. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave S Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 5 hours ago, Lumentation said: Wait a moment...we have also been getting film stopped errors pretty often as well. They usually coincide with the split frames. How can we test/check the perforation sensors? I agree with Kodak_service, the film stopped error will in 99% of cases be due to the film not being mechanically advanced properly. The perforation sensor doesn’t control the movement of the film, it merely monitors the movement of the film using the sprocket holes. If it does the sensor calibration normally without any errors, the sensor will be good. Put your finger on each lower roller and turn the brass wheel on the motor by hand, the rubber rollers should not slip at all, if they do slip that will be your problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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