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Noritsu QSS3702HD prints blown in highlits


Anmino

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Hi,

we have a problem with our 3702HD machine, the highlights are blown compared to our other machine 3701HD. We used the same paper roll, color managment - noritsu profile for both machines, the same version of EZ controller, same profile version, same paper. The highlits on 3702HD are blown.

I attached a few sample photos but its hard to photograph. The ballons have a structure on 3701HD but on 3702HD are the ballons blown and there is nothing.

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Try Highlight Balance Adjustment. Extension > Setup > Laser Setup > Paper Specification Registration > Functions > Highlight Balance Adjustment.

You're sure you don't have any auto corrections on the channel turned on? Chemistry on both machines are within spec?

What does the digital file look like? Its not always the an issue with the new machine, you may just be used to or prefer the prints from the 3701. I would run the highlight balance on both. Also clean your calibration plates - if they're the old plastic ones I would probably replace them.

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Thank you for reply, the highlight balance was done, still not better results, the problems is tha we are getting contrast photos but only in highlits, I measured the white parts in photoshop and there are still some values but when printed there is a white hole, the calibration plate is brand new.

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Its new, original plastic, not ceramic. Here is a comparsion to the old cal.plate which was very yellow-greenish. Whre can I find the D-max data? Could this also be caused by chemistry or Laser or AOM? I made a test, I used the calibration plate with colorimeter from our second machine 3701HD, I installed the cal.plate data + used the colorimeter to run test prints on 3702HD and the test prints /confirmed as OK wit EZ controller/ are very different. On 3701HD machine is the test print nice grey but on the 3702HD machine with the same calibration plate the test print has a yellow -green cast. So my question is could this be caused by chemistry, laser or aom? 

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To truly test after an emu change or setup, you need to be making test prints after the accepted setup print. Those obviously look different, but the machine is still calculating and apply corrections, just not extreme enough to need another print.

The printer should be able to compensate minor chem issues, but if its significant it could certainly be a factor. Consider running control strips. I guess it could be an AOM issue, these machines only have a G AOM drivers so you could try swapping between machines or swap in a spare.

I would also try swapping colorimeters between machines to see if that makes a difference - I've dealt with a bad colorimeter in the past.

In general, it is very very difficult to match machines. I would recommend printing complete orders on the same machine.

 

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On 3/15/2024 at 4:32 PM, oliphaz said:

To truly test after an emu change or setup, you need to be making test prints after the accepted setup print. Those obviously look different, but the machine is still calculating and apply corrections, just not extreme enough to need another print.

The printer should be able to compensate minor chem issues, but if its significant it could certainly be a factor. Consider running control strips. I guess it could be an AOM issue, these machines only have a G AOM drivers so you could try swapping between machines or swap in a spare.

I would also try swapping colorimeters between machines to see if that makes a difference - I've dealt with a bad colorimeter in the past.

In general, it is very very difficult to match machines. I would recommend printing complete orders on the same machine.

 

 The test print comparsion is with the same colorimeter on different machines, the 3701HD has a nice grey test print but the 3702HD has a very yellow greenish cast in the test print, even if I print the test several times it is always yellow-green.

I know its difficult to have the machines calibrated the same but the prints from 3702HD are bad, they have this yellow color tone and blow out highlights.

We will try this week to change the comlete chemistry in 3702HD machine. The colorimeter is not the issue because when it was swaped with 3701HD, the test prints on 3702HD were still yellow also with 3701HD colorimeter unit.

So we think it will be problem with chemistry...if not there will be some hardware issue.

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On 3/15/2024 at 5:13 PM, kodak_service said:

There is no good white in your photos. If this is true, then problems with chemistry are the cause of poor gradation in light colors.
Please post a print screen with the colorimeter readings when measuring the test.

Maybe its not visible on the photo but the white is the same white on both machines , also the black is nice black without any blue tone.

The problem is that the 3702HD machine has a yellow-green tone in the test prints /with the same colorimeter and calibration plate/ and also the 3702HD machine print the same pictures with blown out highlights whre the same photo is o.k. on 3701HD without blown highlights.

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24 minutes ago, kodak_service said:

If the minilab 3701HD has no problems with chemistry, then you can make it print identically to the  minilab 3702HD. There is a "Machine-to-machine variation" mode for this.

Yes I saw this onption in setup. Do you have any experiences with this function? Now I will try to change the the chemistry in 3702HD to exclude the problem with it. Thanks

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There is no need to change the chemistry if you are not sure that it is in poor condition. It's better to do a machine-to-machine variation first. It won't take much time or expense. If machine-to-machine variation does not help, then we need to study chemistry.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/13/2024 at 11:35 AM, Minilab service said:

Is calibration plate new ( ceramic ) ? What are D-MAX on test measurement results?

Here are the two test prints from 3701HD and 3702HD. The 3702HD machine has a brand new original /not ceramic/ cal.plate.

3701HDtest.jpg

3702HDtest.jpg

Edited by Anmino
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Your measurements are incorrect. Maximal values can be up to 2.5. You have about 4.0.

Can be that you didn't load new calibration plate data. Go to confirmation menu and make sure, that the same settings on disc and calibrator.

If calibration data loaded probably you need new calibration plate. Buy ceramic plate ( not plastic ) . Also can be faulty calibrator, but it is faulty very rare.

Edited by Minilab service
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1 hour ago, Minilab service said:

Your measurements are incorrect. Maximal values can be up to 2.5. You have about 4.0.

Can be that you didn't load new calibration plate data. Go to confirmation menu and make sure, that the same settings on disc and calibrator.

If calibration data loaded probably you need new calibration plate. Buy ceramic plate ( not plastic ) . Also can be faulty calibrator, but it is faulty very rare.

The new cal.plate data are loaded o.k from CD, I laso made the data confirmation and it shows that the data from CD and plate are same. As you can see the valuas on 3701HD - which is working o.k. and does not make blown out highlights are also above 2.5 /3.10 - 3.50/.   The 3702HD has 3.97 - 3.98, but the cal.plate data are loaded corectly. So what could be the problem? The 3702HD is still making blown out highlights. We change today the complte chemistry CD, BX and STAB. 

When measure white parts of a photo in photoshop, there are still values like 235-245-240 but after printing on 3702HD I get a photo withou values, there is a white hole - like overexposed.

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So I printed some test files directly from EZ controller service mode, the prints are mentioned in service manual of QS3701 but they are mentioned only the way "Servise personnel should look at them a confromt the quality" I only see that the test prints from Paper specification are different in higlights but I dont know what to adjust.

The prints from 3701HD have a nice gradient in all colors Yellow,Cyan and Magenta compared to 3702HD where Cyan and Magenta gradients are from row nr.15 not visible - only white, only Yellow gradient is a bit vissible. 

Any solutions? Thank youIMG-20240319-WA0003.thumb.jpg.46c58ddad4af59ff119c25144bac6bb5.jpg

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On 3/19/2024 at 3:39 PM, kodak_service said:

Yes. Machine-to-Machine variation and good calibration plate.

P.S. A new calibration plate and a good calibration plate are two different things.

The Calibration Plate is brand new, original from Noritsu, plus I ordered a ceramic one. The result on 3702HD machine is always the same - yellow prints and blown out whites. The chimistry is tested and its o.k. I think it will be some laser issue on 3702HD, here are some sample pictures made with 3701HD and 3702HD, all machines with same paper roll, emulsion number o.k. and all machines set up with EZ controller built in color profile.  There is also a noritsu service test print with evaluating highlights and the 3702HD has a very small gradation path compared to 3702HD where the gradation is nice.

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The service manual says the following about your problem:
• Deterioration of processing solutions, such as becoming dirty
• Setup problems such as measurement position of the colorimeter
• Problems of the colorimeter
• Incorrect paper is selected in Paper Specification Registration.

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11 hours ago, kodak_service said:

The service manual says the following about your problem:
• Deterioration of processing solutions, such as becoming dirty
• Setup problems such as measurement position of the colorimeter
• Problems of the colorimeter
• Incorrect paper is selected in Paper Specification Registration.


• Deterioration of processing solutions, such as becoming dirty - 3 times changed, made test prints - chemistry o.k.
• Setup problems such as measurement position of the colorimeter - tried with 2 different colorimeters and 3 different calibration plates /new one, also ceramic one/
• Problems of the colorimeter - tried 2 different colorimeters
• Incorrect paper is selected in Paper Specification Registration - Not the case, Fuji DPII, paper nr.160 in EZ controller

 

Machine to machine setup -already done - results the same

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