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Fuji 7200 / Noritsu QSS3502 F PLUS error with new calibrating plate, cannot register paper


Liviu Georgescu

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Hello all, I require your advice for a Fuji7200/ Noritsu QSS3502 F PLUS, I had trouble in the past in calibrating the printer, now with new plate things are whorse. I ordered new plate from China for this model, it came with the plate dat wich I loaded with the plate. Still when I go into the maintainance menu and try to calibrate the paper from scratch, for Fuji Crystal Archive I get 06082-00512 error. For Fuji DPII paper I get 06082-00510 or 06082-00511. Hence I could not get past this errors, I loaded data from the old plate and try to define the papers like I would in the past, with old plate. Same errors. While I have some profiles for these 2 type of papers, I loaded them and try to print an Emulsion number change or daily setup strip in order to see if it manages to calibrate. Same errors, no luck. Attached to the message find how the strips are looking. While the Crystal Archive prints very red, when I print from DPII profile in Emulsion number change, print looks a little blueish tint. Attached please find how different calibrations are looking. So I am starting to loose patience, I am no expert on this, but I think is not a laser problem, the problem might be somewhere else. The chemicals in the unit I think there are quite old. Would it be any chance to be a problem related to the quality of chemical? I mean if I change all the solutions with new ones, problem might have a fix? What is your opinion on this, I am pretty sure that if I order another plate original from Japan I will have the same errors in the current state of the printer. Aside from the menu, is anywhere in the Fuji software a hard reset of the printer settings? 

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Did you register new calibration data? You can confirm on menu. On disc and colorimeter should be the same settings.

Now you have three errors - D-MAX for all three colors out of range.

What are D-MAX values on measurement results? 

Few your test prints look very  bad. Might be your chemicals can't process paper.

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Minilab service said:

Did you register new calibration data? You can confirm on menu. On disc and colorimeter should be the same settings.

Now you have three errors - D-MAX for all three colors out of range.

What are D-MAX values on measurement results? 

Few your test prints look very  bad. Might be your chemicals can't process paper.

I do not know to measure DMAX. I think also is due to chemicals, hence with old plate some time ago it worked and now it does not, I am pretty sure it is about them. I will look the manual to see if I am able to replenish them myself or hire someone. What I cannot understand is that the prints look either too red, either too blue, this should of been corrected to find a middle ground. If iI print on paper with profile I have I get  decent results, not correct ones but decent. The red looks bad though. I will see. Thanks! Is it enough to replace the first solution P1 or all of them?

Edited by Liviu Georgescu
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Blue blacks with non blue lighter steps 99% of the time the cause is due to bad CD.

I would just replace the P1 to start with.

Is the white of the paper proper white (it's hard to tell from your images)? If after replacing the P1 the white is still not good, you may need to also replace the P2

If the Wash is dirty, mix fresh in all 4 tanks.

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While the calibration goes very wrong, the following test prints are made with manual adjustments in the current state of the chemicals. The big print is from a calibrated Fujifilm 570 while the small prints are from my lab with paper profiles made soem time ago while it was still working. The corrections I made are -1/-2 to density and -1 to yellows in print screen. Am I able to chenge the chemicals myself? I saw on the manuals that I need to mix A+B solutions for every 3,7 liters of water. I made the mix and I poor it into the lab after I drain the old solution? Can I do this myself or I need to hire somebody? I have manuals for the lab, it says just to mix the solution, not how to poor it, or a special order. 

For some reson the forum does not let me attach photos it says there are too big, I made a link for you to check it.

https://s.go.ro/477ftufe

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It's difficult to tell anything from those photos taken in artificial light.

Do an emulsion Number test print, and take a photo of all the readings the machine gives you on the screen.


The chemical mixing instructions will vary depending on exactly what type of chemistry you are using.

Normally they give you the quantity's per litre, which you times by the tank size. Look for tank solution mix.

The tank sizes for a 35xx F spec are CD(P1) 8.5L BF(P2) 8.2L STB(P3) 11.6L (Total)

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1 hour ago, Dave S said:

It's difficult to tell anything from those photos taken in artificial light.

Do an emulsion Number test print, and take a photo of all the readings the machine gives you on the screen.


The chemical mixing instructions will vary depending on exactly what type of chemistry you are using.

Normally they give you the quantity's per litre, which you times by the tank size. Look for tank solution mix.

The tank sizes for a 35xx F spec are CD(P1) 8.5L BF(P2) 8.2L STB(P3) 11.6L (Total)

I cannot have any value in emulsion number test hence it gives the errors above and does not show any value. Chemistry is CP-49E, it is particular to fuji, the lab makes the  mixture and replenish it by itself from a cartrige. Is there a way to test quality of mixture? I do not know where to get control strip or anything else.

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The scanner seems to exagerate a bit but there it is. File number 1 represent paper calibration with FujiDP2 Glossy, 2 represent paper calibration with Fuji Crystal Archive Luster, 3 represents Emulsion Number Change with both paper using a paper I managed to define with the old calibration plate which gave +4 in magenta when calibrating paper.

https://s.go.ro/2wnw4gyd

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3 hours ago, Liviu Georgescu said:

I cannot have any value in emulsion number test hence it gives the errors above and does not show any value. Chemistry is CP-49E, it is particular to fuji, the lab makes the  mixture and replenish it by itself from a cartrige. Is there a way to test quality of mixture? I do not know where to get control strip or anything else.

 It's difficult to test the chemistry condition accurately without processing a control strip. A very rough test is unexposed paper should be white and fogged paper should be a deep black.

You need x3 of CD the start up kit 992 206 to make 8.5L (each Kit makes 3.7L)

WPS_026_Fuji_Frontier_CP49_RA4_201401.pdf

Edited by Dave S
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Sorry I didn't check the images of the errors properly to realize it was not giving you the reading values. The 35 and later series of machines are too cleaver for there own good sometimes!

All the errors relate to bad D-max values, which is likely to be down to weak developer.

I read in your other post you have very low volumes, with that in mind it's highly likely you colour developer is weak and needs to be replaced.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Dave S said:

Sorry I didn't check the images of the errors properly to realize it was not giving you the reading values. The 35 and later series of machines are too cleaver for there own good sometimes!

All the errors relate to bad D-max values, which is likely to be down to weak developer.

I read in your other post you have very low volumes, with that in mind it's highly likely you colour developer is weak and needs to be replaced.

That being only the PS1? Like 3-4 days ago asked me to poor out the PS2 aout to replenish.

Edited by Liviu Georgescu
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The P1 (CD) dies easier than the P2 (BF).

Generally symptoms of weak P1 (CD) are blue blacks or grey blacks if too much water has gone in due to water refilling errors.

Symptoms of bad P2(BF) are dirty looking whites and certain colours like red and yellow looking dull. If you look at the chemical filter and see it's covered in a cream mess, the BF will definitely be bad.

Once the chemistry has gone dead, normal replenishing will not bring it back alive.

Edited by Dave S
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Thanks for explaining. Black is looking bad only when I print test, if I use profile defined before changeing calibration plate it looks ok. ALso yellows are fine, red though is looking dull. What can cause water refilling errors? Testing the pump like in service manual or? 

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You didn't tell are calibration data correct, or not. You didn't upload screenshot with calibration data confirmation  Should be the same settings on disc and calibrator.

You didn't tell what are D-MAX after test measurement. You didn't upload screenshot with final test measurement results.

How we can advice something, when do not see anything?

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30 minutes ago, Minilab service said:

You didn't tell are calibration data correct, or not. You didn't upload screenshot with calibration data confirmation  Should be the same settings on disc and calibrator.

You didn't tell what are D-MAX after test measurement. You didn't upload screenshot with final test measurement results.

How we can advice something, when do not see anything?

Calibration data I loaded fro mthe disk and after that I calibrated the scanner. Same on disk, same on software. When it gives the errors, no values are shown, the error termiantes the process without showing any values. Again, no test measurments, immediatlly after calibration the error pops and no values are shown. 

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10 hours ago, Liviu Georgescu said:

Thanks for explaining. Black is looking bad only when I print test, if I use profile defined before changeing calibration plate it looks ok. ALso yellows are fine, red though is looking dull. What can cause water refilling errors? Testing the pump like in service manual or? 

Sometimes the developer is just strong enough to give a good black with fogged paper but is not strong enough to give a good black when printing. Like I said this is only a very rough test of the chemical condition.

Water refilling errors are caused by the float switch in the CD tank getting stuck because of dirt and crystals etc, if this happens the CD get diluted with water.

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Guys, first of all give me the chance to excuse myself from wasteing some of your time. The scans I made yesterday and uploaded as tiff had some bad color shifts due to tiff format made by my Xerox scanning device. I made today alot of tests and I managed to scan them corectlly as pdf in the link below. Please if you have time, check this link, there are all the information I can provide there, even comparative prints made when I received the lab, 3 weeks after and today 7 weeks after. I put also all the parameters in the options, maybe you find something out of the ordinary there. If you have time and patience check the link and let me know what you think. I took some picture of the interior of the lab which is quite dirty, maybe this could be the source of contamination? Also new plate vs old plate and parameters in Lab menu. Hope this information is complete, I put description for everything in order to be easy to understand. 

Guys I beg you, help me understand this god darn machine, my dream in owning it turns into nightmare.

https://s.go.ro/urya0wq6

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On the back of the calibration plate is the S/N does the plate match the S/N of the data you have loaded?

If it works with the old (plastic) calibration plate with it's matched data, then it's possible the ceramic plate is bad or the data you have for it is bad.

On some of those sample prints it looks like the blacks have a very slight tinge of blue, but it maybe my monitor or the scan making it look like that.

Maybe if you know someone in your city who has a Noritsu 32/33/35/37 series, you could visually compare your emulsion test prints, or maybe try reading in your emulsion test print on their machine to see if it reads it properly or not, obviously don't enter any correction values! If it does read take a screen shot of the reading values.

Or try reading in their emulsion print on your machine, though it's harder to do due to the way it feeds the print in directly from the dryer on the 35 series.

Edited by Dave S
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Posted (edited)

The S/N match. I tried with the old plate and saved old values and entered in a plate.dat by hand, loaded and saved them in system. Still same errors. Yes, the deep black have a blue tint, slightly. When I calibrated in the past, when the deep black was not pure black the lab gave errors. When the light shades where off, but black was pure, no error, the lab tried to calibrate. The prints do not look wawaful, can;t understand while still does not try to correct the deep black. Did you looked at the pictures of the racks? They seem very dirty, I know I must clean them, maybe that may be the cause of the contamination? The lab came with Calbe Chemicals in it and Eurolight replenisher. The guys that had it, did not print very large volumes, never had any calibration errors on it. Can be some problems related to temperatures or other settings? Maybe they forced some settings for the lab to work with the old plate? I do not know if it matters, but some time ago, lab gave me a message to drain P1 substance, like it does with P2+PSR. The one who sold it said never to drain P1. I clicked OK and did not drained anything, the message dissapeared. DIdn't say anything about P1 after. Could it be related in any way?

Edited by Liviu Georgescu
adding something
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The machine cannot correct the black because your CD is weak.

Maybe the machine had been sitting for a while before you got it and the replenisher packs have gone stale, who knows, all I do know is your CD is bad and this is the cause of the calibration problems.

It probably would be a good idea to calibrate the CD rep pumps, then empty the rep holding tanks, and fit a new chemical box. Then dump the main CD tank and make a fresh CD tank mix with the start up chemistry.

It seems like you don't want to accept the likely fact that your CD is bad and is the cause of the blue blacks and the calibration errors.

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Posted (edited)

For me it is OK, I can accept that chemicals have gone bad. I am affraid not to have the same problem after I replace chemicals and problem to be somewhere else. As soon as I have time to clean it I'll order the chemicals and give it a go. How can I clean the system from old chemicals? I mean here not the tank with solution but the cartrige replenishment bays that might have still substance in them. ALso there is a procedure for the lab to know I changed chemicals and not replenish too quickly? This information I did not find in the manuals. 

Edited by Liviu Georgescu
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Empty the replenisher tanks as shown in the attached PDF.
Then operate the pump output until nothing comes out of the pumps.

Put the new pack on and measure the output of each pump until the liquid starts coming through without any air.

Now measure the pump 3 times add the readings together, then divide by 3, this will give you the average reading. Do this for all the pumps.
Enter the average reading value into the Pump Output Amount Setting screen.
The values should not be significantly different to what is already entered there, if they are, then there will be a problem with the pump poppet valves or a blockage in the pipes somewhere.

Replenisher Troubleshooting.pdf

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dave S said:

Empty the replenisher tanks as shown in the attached PDF.
Then operate the pump output until nothing comes out of the pumps.

Put the new pack on and measure the output of each pump until the liquid starts coming through without any air.

Now measure the pump 3 times add the readings together, then divide by 3, this will give you the average reading. Do this for all the pumps.
Enter the average reading value into the Pump Output Amount Setting screen.
The values should not be significantly different to what is already entered there, if they are, then there will be a problem with the pump poppet valves or a blockage in the pipes somewhere.

Replenisher Troubleshooting.pdf 279.76 kB · 0 downloads

Ok man, thanks! Would it be a good idea to measure it before I drain it? And to leave it be after if the amounts coresponds to what is written on the system or correct it before new cartrige installation? Or the amounts are different from one cartrige to another?

Edited by Liviu Georgescu
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